30 mpg hwy from a full size truck! 2018 F-150 3.0 Diesel

Seeing a bunch of articles pop up today on the new F-150 diesel. I guess the embargo must have lifted. It's a 2,400 dollar premium over the base V6 according to the work truck article I read which with gas price differences between diesel and gas would have a payback of 188k miles, however I wonder if the real world

http://www.motortrend.com/cars/ford/f-150/2018/2018-ford-f-150-diesel-first-test-review/

http://www.motortrend.com/cars/ford/f-150/2018/2018-ford-f-150-xl-diesel-first-test-review/

"

The biggest benefit, however, is in fuel economy. We just ran our Real MPG tests, and our XL 4×2 SuperCab tester got 22.9/34.3/27.0 mpg city/highway/combined. Those are terrific figures when compared to the 3.5-liter gasoline work truck, which delivers 18/25/21 mpg, according to the EPA. But is the benefit worth the extra money?"

"That’s a question that might require a bit of math. With national average fuel prices at $2.96/gallon for regular fuel and $3.17/gallon for diesel, it will take 188,000 highway miles (at 30 mpg) to pay back the $2,400 premium an XL fleet buyer will pay for a Power Stroke engine over the cost of a base 2WD 3.5L EcoBoost (at 25 mpg on the highway) with the equivalent towing capacity. However, Ford claims that if you tow a 10,000-pound trailer, that mileage is reduced to 37,600"

My wife 1.6 fusion can barely get 27mpg combined lol geez

Kinda of topic, but any idea if this engine will be available in the Explorer?

So maybe you guys can educate me but the payback parr always rubs me the wrong way.

Makes sense in some contexts but not in this one. It assumes your buying a truck or an f150 in this case, and the only cost they amortize is the added cost of the engine option.

The reason I think this doesn't work is because some people never fully pay a car off, they just trade it back in, or if they do a car rarely depreciates to nothing in a single owners hands, and wildly different engines like this could make a large change in depreciation curve, and at the end of 5 years the diesel could be worth 5k more than the gasser, in which case you'd have a lower depreciation cost of the diesel truck, which you could look at as a lower price actually paid for the truck. Example if you paid 30 for a gasser or 33 for a diesel, and the gasser depreciates 15k but the diesel is rare and sought after in the second hand market and only depreciates 10k. You still have that assest at the end so you really only paid depraciation., Once you sell it.

I think the better way to look at it is, the added cost on a monthly payment compared the the monthly fuel savings.

Now I may be missing something obvious as to why this doesn't work, and I understand that it's based on a lot of variables we don't know, but the status dard payback formula always rubbed me the wrong way

I hate Diesels with a passion, but I also agree with your cost analysis disdain.

Can't you just buy what you want to buy without trying to justify it?  Because if you want to justify it on an expense, keeping your old vehicle that you already own and maintaining well ALWAYS wins.  "I want something shiny and new that makes sounds like my farmer uncle's tractor" should be all the justification one needs.  Hell, from what I see, 70-80% of the potential market could get by with a Corolla.  You don't need 5000ft-lb of torque and two feet of ground clearance on chromed rims to go from your upper middle class suburb prepackaged housing development to your middle management job and back, but that is who is buying these things.

Fuel economy payback is easy to determine. It's just basic math. Estimating future depreciation is just speculating, and no media outlet is going to guess about things that people might use to justify expensive purchases. That opens them up to nothing good.

Diesel trucks always have a friendlier depreciation compared to the gas trucks. 

I was kinda expecting to see the 3.2L I5 from the Transit. This 3.0 makes some killer numbers. Just need to give it to me in a crate package...

'30 mpg from a full size truck' is officially old news, but i'm still watching the proliferation of options with interest.  I did just watch the TFL  Truck  towing challenge using the 3.0 F150 and they were getting a limp mode after the tow/haul mode had the thing engine-braking at redline rpm for extended period, so im curious about that. I have a feeling it has something to do with turbine or catalyst temps, but i'm having a hard time working out how in my head. 

Limp Mode?

You are correct that for most people out there I don't think the economic argument is really an argument, its more of an excuse or some reasons that can offset your being irrational vs making the decision rational. I will say that in 2007 or so I had a F-150 and I sold it when gas prices went to 4.20+ a gallon because it was my daily and I was doing 60 miles a day or so at 16mpg. Had that truck gotten 25mpg I would have kept it because the offset cost was made up for in utility and just the fact I liked it.

We all own a lot of irrational things especially cars here on this forum and all find all sorts of reasons why we need them.

There are a lot of intangibles also like people feel weird about parking/registering/insuring multiple vehicles even if it might be two cheaper ones vs one newer/more expensive one etc. I am a I would take 2 10k vehicles and 1 5k vehicle vs 1 25k vehicle but my wife doesn't see things that way

Vigo said:

'30 mpg from a full size truck' is officially old news, but i'm still watching the proliferation of options with interest.  I did just watch the TFL  Truck  towing challenge using the 3.0 F150 and they were getting a limp mode after the tow/haul mode had the thing engine-braking at redline rpm for extended period, so im curious about that. I have a feeling it has something to do with turbine or catalyst temps, but i'm having a hard time working out how in my head. 

Limp Mode?

Oh I was hoping TFL truck would test it.

I don't think the ECO diesel broke 30mpg hwy in EPA testing did it? Nope 23 combined 27 hwy. Also its the 2wd that seems particular good on the mpg for the F-150 surprised how much the 4x4 loses out

Jaynen said:

I will say that in 2007 or so I had a F-150 and I sold it when gas prices went to 4.20+ a gallon because it was my daily and I was doing 60 miles a day or so at 16mpg.

My stepdad bought a new 5.7l Tacoma or whatever generic Toyota powered-wheelbarrow thing had that monster V8 for $18k around that timeframe.  I thin his credit score was in the negative digits, too.  Given that this was when gas prices were at their peak AND it was the middle of the Toyota unintended-acceleration fiasco, I bet the salesdroids were just happy that they moved something off of their lot.

Jaynen said:

Vigo said:

'30 mpg from a full size truck' is officially old news, but i'm still watching the proliferation of options with interest.  I did just watch the TFL  Truck  towing challenge using the 3.0 F150 and they were getting a limp mode after the tow/haul mode had the thing engine-braking at redline rpm for extended period, so im curious about that. I have a feeling it has something to do with turbine or catalyst temps, but i'm having a hard time working out how in my head. 

Limp Mode?

Oh I was hoping TFL truck would test it.

I don't think the ECO diesel broke 30mpg hwy in EPA testing did it? Nope 23 combined 27 hwy. Also its the 2wd that seems particular good on the mpg for the F-150 surprised how much the 4x4 loses out

 might be that 700lb difference. XL isn't vey loaded. The platinum is very very loaded. 

I don't think the ECO diesel broke 30mpg hwy in EPA testing did it?

No, but TFL tested it to 33 hwy. Not as scientific as the exhaust-gas-measurement stuff Motor Trend does, but it's as good as anyone could replicate on the street with no equipment.  

Let's just hope this Ford diesel isn't like their Powerstroke motors.  If it is, you have a very good chance of the HPFP lunching itself around the 60-100k mile mark and sending metal shavings all throughout your fuel system.  Repair bill is around $10k.  Have fun with that.

Jaynen said:

Vigo said:

'30 mpg from a full size truck' is officially old news, but i'm still watching the proliferation of options with interest.  I did just watch the TFL  Truck  towing challenge using the 3.0 F150 and they were getting a limp mode after the tow/haul mode had the thing engine-braking at redline rpm for extended period, so im curious about that. I have a feeling it has something to do with turbine or catalyst temps, but i'm having a hard time working out how in my head. 

Limp Mode?

Oh I was hoping TFL truck would test it.

I don't think the ECO diesel broke 30mpg hwy in EPA testing did it? Nope 23 combined 27 hwy. Also its the 2wd that seems particular good on the mpg for the F-150 surprised how much the 4x4 loses out

I was going to check to see if it did break 30mpg on the actual test- but the data isn't posted to the EPA database, yet.  The rated numbers are not the actual test numbers, so it's actually possible that the truck cleared 30mpg during the highway portion of the test (which isn't really representative, but I was just being a PITA).  Interesting that it's not up yet- which suggests that it's also not for sale, yet.

Sweet. Do I need to mortgage my house to buy it. 

Klayfish said:

Let's just hope this Ford diesel isn't like their Powerstroke motors.  If it is, you have a very good chance of the HPFP lunching itself around the 60-100k mile mark and sending metal shavings all throughout your fuel system.  Repair bill is around $10k.  Have fun with that.

Because of contaminated fuel. Most diesel owners know to always use high traffic diesel fuel stations.

Fueled by Caffeine said:

Sweet. Do I need to mortgage my house to buy it. 

For the Lariat one its around 42k for the cheapest version which the cheap F-250 is like 44k? with the powerstroke?

If you had fleet access you can get an XL/XLT version in the 30's

yupididit said:

Jaynen said:

Vigo said:

'30 mpg from a full size truck' is officially old news, but i'm still watching the proliferation of options with interest.  I did just watch the TFL  Truck  towing challenge using the 3.0 F150 and they were getting a limp mode after the tow/haul mode had the thing engine-braking at redline rpm for extended period, so im curious about that. I have a feeling it has something to do with turbine or catalyst temps, but i'm having a hard time working out how in my head. 

Limp Mode?

Oh I was hoping TFL truck would test it.

I don't think the ECO diesel broke 30mpg hwy in EPA testing did it? Nope 23 combined 27 hwy. Also its the 2wd that seems particular good on the mpg for the F-150 surprised how much the 4x4 loses out

 might be that 700lb difference. XL isn't vey loaded. The platinum is very very loaded. 

The other article I saw I don't think it was a totally base truck that the 4x2 still performed way better on mpg

yupididit said:

Klayfish said:

Let's just hope this Ford diesel isn't like their Powerstroke motors.  If it is, you have a very good chance of the HPFP lunching itself around the 60-100k mile mark and sending metal shavings all throughout your fuel system.  Repair bill is around $10k.  Have fun with that.

Because of contaminated fuel. Most diesel owners know to always use high traffic diesel fuel stations.

Its' got nothing to do with contaminated fuel.  It's a product issue with the pump.  I've literally dealt with hundreds of these over the past decade.  I kid you not that when I see a "contaminated fuel" claim, literally 95-98% of them involve Ford Powerstrokes.  Almost all are around 60-90k miles.  Not a coincidence, and not bad gas...though I think the owners get quite gassy when they see the repair bill. 

If you say so. 

So...ten a year? 

Klayfish said:

yupididit said:

Klayfish said:

Let's just hope this Ford diesel isn't like their Powerstroke motors.  If it is, you have a very good chance of the HPFP lunching itself around the 60-100k mile mark and sending metal shavings all throughout your fuel system.  Repair bill is around $10k.  Have fun with that.

Because of contaminated fuel. Most diesel owners know to always use high traffic diesel fuel stations.

Its' got nothing to do with contaminated fuel.  It's a product issue with the pump.  I've literally dealt with hundreds of these over the past decade.  I kid you not that when I see a "contaminated fuel" claim, literally 95-98% of them involve Ford Powerstrokes.  Almost all are around 60-90k miles.  Not a coincidence, and not bad gas...though I think the owners get quite <b>gassy</b> when they see the repair bill. 

I see what you did there. 

Klayfish said:

Let's just hope this Ford diesel isn't like their Powerstroke motors.  If it is, you have a very good chance of the HPFP lunching itself around the 60-100k mile mark and sending metal shavings all throughout your fuel system.  Repair bill is around $10k.  Have fun with that.

What version of Powerstroke are you seeing this problem on?