300hp NA from a bmw 6?

In reply to edizzle89:

It is pretty cheap but lack of a good manual rules it out.

As far as the older bmw sixes they are about the same price as the more modern motors. And for that price I would rather have the modern choice.

In reply to Fitzauto:

The Colorado/Canyon trucks had manuals that should bolt to any of the Atlas engines. I don't know how 'truck-like' they are, however. I remember the trans might be related to the ones in the Solstice/Sky so you might be able to swap shifter position/gearing... Just spit balling.

320 hp BMW v12 (5.4l), $350 : http://chicago.craigslist.org/wcl/pts/5139811408.html

Adapter to mount it to any e36 manual trans, $300 : http://www.ebay.com/itm/171852402541?_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

Trust me, I'm thinking long and hard about it for my challenge car.

In reply to rcutclif:

This route would undoubtedly be the most fun but I have a feeling it could get pricey when the motor goes wrong.

Mr_Clutch42 wrote: The euro spec S52 made 320 hp, so if you could purchase a euro spec head and cams and put it on a U.S. spec block (if it fits directly), may be another easy (if costly) option.

There is absolutely no reason to do this.

Less HP, less parts availability, etc. People only did this when it was cheaper to get that motor than an S54.

Fitzauto wrote: In reply to z31maniac: Whats involved in the e85 conversion?

Big enough injectors/fuel pump to handle the approx 30-35% increase in fuel load.

Wideband, a way to tune AFR/Timing (and I'm sure there is some power in the cam timing as well).

If I ever run out of projects, I'm putting one of those M70s in an E36 coupe chassis and heading to the track. Just because V12.

Jamey_from_Legal wrote: If I ever run out of projects, I'm putting one of those M70s in an E36 coupe chassis and heading to the track. Just because V12.

Biggest problem I think would be the oil sump. the m70 naturally fits with the e30 and 5/7 series front sump setup. Not so great for the e36s twin/rear sump.

z31maniac wrote: S52 will take even more. S52, OBD-I manifold, 3.5MAF, headers, tune, Schrick cams typically ends up in the 255-260whp. Which ends up being more than an S54. S54 + E85 should do it.

A stock S54 with a good dyno tune typically makes an easy 270-280wHP. You will spend $3.5 to 5k depending on how well you shop.

I was getting 351 to the wheels out of an S54 with SS headers, motorsports airbox, and an Alfa-N race tune from Epic. It costs about $10k to put that together at retail.

An S52 with cams, headers and 3" single exhaust can get to 270 via a WAR chip, dyno time and race fuel. It can get to 290+ with 2nd overbore, rods and pistons but if you think an S54 is expensive do not open this can of worms. If you buy an "IP" motor from VAC or Little Speed Shop you get about that - for $20k. You can get as much over that as you are willing to pay for crank and head work at the cost of reducing reliability to very short hours.

The S54 will still make better torque numbers and dollar for dollar across the board and is the best bet if NA BMW straight six power is what you want.

dean1484 wrote: Side tracking this thread a bit but I would like to know if there is a V6 in NA form that can do that. All aluminum would be nice as would old school EFI. No VVT and what not so that can be converted to MS with relative ease. Also being able to bolt to a manual is a must!!!

Buy an old Busch Grand National engine... 4.5l and usually around 500hp. Iron blocks per rules.

Giant Purple Snorklewacker wrote:

z31maniac wrote: S52 will take even more. S52, OBD-I manifold, 3.5MAF, headers, tune, Schrick cams typically ends up in the 255-260whp. Which ends up being more than an S54. S54 + E85 should do it.

A stock S54 with a good dyno tune typically makes an easy 270-280wHP. You will spend $3.5 to 5k depending on how well you shop. I was getting 351 to the wheels out of an S54 with SS headers, motorsports airbox, and an Alfa-N race tune from Epic. It costs about $10k to put that together at retail. An S52 with cams, headers and 3" single exhaust can get to 270 via a WAR chip, dyno time and race fuel. It can get to 290+ with 2nd overbore, rods and pistons but if you think an S54 is expensive do not open this can of worms. If you buy an "IP" motor from VAC or Little Speed Shop you get about that - for $20k. You can get as much over that as you are willing to pay for crank and head work at the cost of reducing reliability to very short hours. The S54 will still make better torque numbers and dollar for dollar across the board and is the best bet if NA BMW straight six power is what you want.

Good to know cams add a bit more, my OBD-I S52 3.5MAF/Turner headers, 2.5 exhaust, Turner tune did right at 235whp and that peak was more like a 1k rpm shelf, fun engine in an E30.

Sounds like poor mans race fuel (E85 would have nudged that close to 400whp) or were you already on the sweet smelling stuff?

z31maniac wrote: Sounds like poor mans race fuel (E85 would have nudged that close to 400whp) or were you already on the sweet smelling stuff?

I was running the sweet stuff ;)

I was as far as I could go without cams and stroking/boring/lighting internals. It's a lot of money to make an S54 go to 400+. The guys at the front in CCA club racing are dropping 50k to get the secret sauce of 475+ at only about 20 hours.

The pedestrian on pump gas can do 320 pretty well with bolt ons and a few dyno pulls and not have to replace bearings every 5hrs. THat is about where the ROI stops and you start considering 8 holes and a bowtie block.

The I6 in the E46 M3 can do it:

http://www.motoiq.com/MagazineArticles/ID/3848/Project-E46-M3-Part-11--Castro-Motorsports-air-box-installed-and-dyno-tested.aspx

The s54 is definitely a front runner for sure.

Also thinking about lowering the goal to 250-275 whp. That should be plenty in an s30

Fitzauto wrote: Also thinking about lowering the goal to 250-275 whp. That should be plenty in an s30

an sr20 swapped 240sx is 'plenty' fast, and durn close to 250 whp with a mod or two and slightly more boost. I would think an s30 would react similarly.

being able to get the engine, trans, harness, ecu, cluster, etc all shipped to you right on one pallet is appetizing too.

In reply to rcutclif:

I like the idea of one pallet for sure. But no 4 bangers. Wanna try and keep a 6 of some kind to preserve the character a little bit.

V6 - Toyota's GR engine series can be made to pump out a bit more... closer to 450hp(n/a)... but that is with $20 large invested....

I6 - A Nissan RB engine, in n/a form, can likely be built to exceed 300hp, the boosted ones have no problems making waay more

if you are looking at V6s.. the Nissan VQ35 tops 300 stock

S54 is the hot ticket. Easier to find than an S52 at this point.

M54 is a great choice. Aluminum block, dual vanos, and a lot more torque compared to an S52, with the same amount of top end power similarly modded. Cheap too, like $500-$800 cheap. But you won't get 300hp N/A, but you will get close, and be ~60lbs lighter than the iron choices.

The m54 is intriguing mostly because a few local yards have them. Considered the vq and its a possibility but it seems to be a bit pricey for what you get. Also looked into the RB series and thought very seriously about it but decided againt it.

dean1484 wrote:

Gunslinger wrote: Honda J 3.5 does it stock and cheap.

I just looked that up and they all seem to have vvt. They are also only rated at 250 hp and similar torque. I am intrigued though. My friend has an MDX with a blown up trans. Wonder if he would part with the motor and the complete harness and ecu. Hummmmmm.

Some were rated at 305hp. I've heard Hondadata ecu, will really wake one up.

Fitzauto wrote: The m54 is intriguing mostly because a few local yards have them. Considered the vq and its a possibility but it seems to be a bit pricey for what you get. Also looked into the RB series and thought very seriously about it but decided againt it.

The M54B30 is a nice engine. A solid 228HP/221ft/lbs before any modding and 250 with bolt-ons a tune and so on... but the aluminum block is the real draw. It's 60lbs lighter than the iron block S52 at roughly the same potential. It's also CHEAP. Like... 1/3 the cost of Supersprints for the S54.

There are the same choices/issues with swapping it and making everything run as with the S54 but they are well known now. You can spend for easy or roll up your sleeves for cheap. I personally have not used one of these - but I think I'm putting one in my E30 over the winter to get some weight off the front and the overall weight under 2100lbs... and to stay with BMW DNA (was S52 swapped, then S54 swapped... now looking for 24hr enduro fuel economy and good power)

I thought you'd already decided to go Nissan rb. And really, why wouldn't you?

So much info on them, plenty of after market support, there should be about a million rb converted cars out there to use as reference, it keeps it all Nissan..... I could keep going, but you get the point. Just remember, being different for the sake of it is often fraught with headaches. With Nissan's interchangeability, you should be able to do an rb swap with pretty much all factory Nissan parts, worst case scenario a mount or two might need fabbing.

In reply to daeman:

Main issue I have with the rb motor is that they can be a bit pricey for a good one and some parts seem abit hard to come by. Otherwise its still in the running but the m54 is cheap as dirt and doesnt seem to be any harder to swap in.