Entropyman
Entropyman GRM+ Memberand Reader
10/2/13 1:45 p.m.

I hope the collective has some thoughts that I have missed. SWBO went out to start the 318ti yesterday and it sounded weird. It turned over very rapidly and would not start. I suspected that it had some how jumped cam timing but when I tore it apart today I found that was not the case. Did a quick and improper (engine was cold) compression test and got numbers in the 30-60 psi range. Car ran normally yesterday and I see no signs of mechanical catastrophe. Any thoughts?

AngryCorvair
AngryCorvair GRM+ Memberand PowerDork
10/2/13 2:20 p.m.

dead ignition module

kb58
kb58 HalfDork
10/2/13 2:49 p.m.

I had a car do that... the fiber cam gear had stripped, and the engine spun like there was zero load on the crank. The hint was seeing vapors going in and out of the carb. Thankfully for me it was a non-interference engine.

kb58
kb58 HalfDork
10/2/13 2:50 p.m.

Did you crank it with the valve cover off? Were both cams turning?

Entropyman
Entropyman GRM+ Memberand Reader
10/2/13 3:05 p.m.

I cranked it manually with a breaker bar with the cam cover off. I verified that the cams were turning and were correctly timed. It did sound just like a car cranking with a bad timing belt but the chain ect. seems to be where it should be. I'll look into the ignition module. Thanks for the input!

Kenny_McCormic
Kenny_McCormic SuperDork
10/2/13 3:07 p.m.

I'd take a closer look at the valvetrain based on those compression figures.

iceracer
iceracer UberDork
10/2/13 5:39 p.m.

Did you hold the throttle fully open ?

Strike_Zero
Strike_Zero SuperDork
10/2/13 6:06 p.m.

The only thing that comes to mind is coil module.

However, as stated, those compression numbers don't look right.

Entropyman
Entropyman GRM+ Memberand Reader
10/2/13 7:15 p.m.

Thanks for the suggestions! I neglected to keep the throttle open on the first test. I re-did it and everything was around 70 psi.

Ian F
Ian F UltimaDork
10/2/13 9:31 p.m.

70 psi sounds kinda low for a M44... My M20 put up numbers close to (or more than) double that and even the 'down' cylinder was at 90.

Giant Purple Snorklewacker
Giant Purple Snorklewacker MegaDork
10/2/13 9:54 p.m.

Compression on that motor should be closer to 160-180

Entropyman
Entropyman GRM+ Memberand Reader
10/3/13 9:19 a.m.

That's what I thought, but I wasn't sure how much difference doing the test with a cold engine would make.

Ian F
Ian F UltimaDork
10/3/13 10:14 a.m.

I did both a hot and cold test on my M20 and while the numbers were slightly higher on average when hot, the difference was not substantial.

Entropyman
Entropyman GRM+ Memberand Reader
10/3/13 10:52 a.m.

This ain't looking good

tuna55
tuna55 PowerDork
10/3/13 11:14 a.m.

Did this thing run when you shut it off? Everything points to a real mechanical issue causing no compression but that's not something that just happens while it's sitting there in the driveway.

Perhaps the extra heat soak load pushed the head gasket out or something?

Kenny_McCormic
Kenny_McCormic SuperDork
10/3/13 11:23 a.m.

Timing chains and belts typically fail at startup or shutdown, due to the jerk of being accelerated from/to a stop.

Wayslow
Wayslow Reader
10/3/13 11:30 a.m.

I have to agree with the general opinion that it's likely a timing belt/chain failure. However I had a similar issue with a freshly rebuilt engine. I had somehow forgotten to remove a plastic cover from the intake manifold before I installed the carb. Drove myself nuts trying to figure out the issue. I know that this can't be the case with yours but is there any chance the butterfly is stuck closed or the intake is somehow obstructed? Mouse nest? Just a thought.

Entropyman
Entropyman GRM+ Memberand Reader
10/3/13 11:55 a.m.

It ran normally last time it was out and hadn't sat for more than a day or two. I think it's time for the front cover to come off.

Ian F
Ian F UltimaDork
10/3/13 12:31 p.m.

The next test I'd try if you can is a leak-down test.

Entropyman
Entropyman GRM+ Memberand Reader
10/3/13 2:08 p.m.

Am I correct in assuming that all valves for a particular cylinder should be closed when that cylinder is at TDC?

Ian F
Ian F UltimaDork
10/3/13 2:13 p.m.

Yes. Generally easiest to monitor with the valve cover off.

AngryCorvair
AngryCorvair GRM+ Memberand PowerDork
10/3/13 3:45 p.m.
Entropyman wrote: Am I correct in assuming that all valves for a particular cylinder should be closed when that cylinder is at TDC?

TDC happens twice for every complete cycle of a four-cycle engine. so TDC firing should have all valves closed for the cylinder that's firing. TDC exhaust will have exhaust valves open.

Entropyman
Entropyman GRM+ Memberand Reader
10/8/13 4:03 p.m.

Well, Angry Corvair was correct. The coil was bad. Apparently the low compression was caused by unburned fuel "washing down" the cylinder. It had to crank for a while with the new coil but it finally caught and runs great now! Thanks to everyone for their help and input!

mad_machine
mad_machine GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
10/8/13 4:06 p.m.

wonderful news.

glueguy
glueguy GRM+ Memberand Reader
10/8/13 4:47 p.m.

Wow, that's a fantastic outcome. Congrats

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