350z as track day car

First off we own an 06Boxster and do 4-6 DE's a year with it. it's great fun , love the handling, just wished it had a little more HP.

I've been thing about a dedicated track car--the corvette FRC first came to mind and then later the 350z. I can't say I've seen a lot of 350z's at the track but on paper they look like they should function very well in that roll.

My concern is about the weight and brakes--the car weighs about 400lbs more than the boxster but looks to have brakes that might be just a bit smaller. Reports haver that the brakes(non-brembo)tend to fade on the track and the weight makes the car a bit cumbersome in corners. Ideally i'd like to get an 07 model with the newer engine but the bigger brakes are only available on the more expensive models.price wise, I'm trying to keep this in the low 20's range which would limit this to the enthusiast and touring models.

Anyway, would appreciate views on this car--2007/08 mid level model for track days--thanks in advance.

I can't see doing track days in a 350Z without the track pack. The factory obviously knew what the car needed to hit the track.

FWIW - I hope you mean their ROLE on the track. The other kind of roll is generally considered bad on the track.

Solstice GXP or RX-8? Just a suggestion.

From my research on the 350Z, it is just going to be a heavy car. However, I have seen them very fast on the track with a decent suspension and tires. You could always find on 05 and then get a big brake kit added too.

Had an 04 RX8; peddled it last year after: 1) tranny was replaced under warranty--shot after 35K highway miles $3.5K 2) shuttle valve stuck in the intake requiring the intake to be pulled--under warranty.$1.5K 3) car barely passed the compression test--based on their numbers. Power seemed down relative to new; given the number of engines replacements in this year we decided to dump before the warranty ran out.

Other than that, we liked the car..:

Having said all that--where do you get the big brake kit and what' are the $$'s involved? thanks mike

You will feel every pound of that car and the long wheelbase really kills it in the corners.

I have no clue how much weight you can strip out of it tho. But you can't change the wheelbase. That's why the new 370 comes with a shorter wheelbase.

Sounds like you've got more spare cash than the average person here. But even still, I'd say look for something cheaper/more expendable. Are you prepared to ball-up and completely write off a $20k Z-car?

If your budget is $20k, maybe pick up a solid $10k car and spend $5k on safety equipment for the car and yourself: full cage, seats, harnesses, suit, helmet, HANS. Set the other $5k aside for tires and repairs.

If I were in the market for a 350z, I would buy a Corvette C4. Something from the end of that generation, with an LS1. You could probably even find a C5 for $20k, if you search around a little bit.

If I were in that price range, I think I would look at a S2000. I hear they make great dedicated track cars. Honda reliability to boot. Just an idea, but if you are wanting more power than the Boxter it might not work for you.

First off, thanks for all the replies

Salanis:

To answer your first question, I'd prefer not to but have been prepared to ball up a $50K+ Boxster for the past 3 years.

I'm looking at the Z/C5 as a less expensive car to put through the paces of a DE and to have less $'s "at risk" in these events and to do events where convertibles are not allowed without a roll cage .

In that price range, you end up with a C5 roughly 7-10 years old, out of warranty and probably needing something on the mechanical side. The Z on the other hand, still has the factory warranty and should be good to go save tires and pads.But....... then you have to deal with the added weight and reportedly middling braking of the base car.

BTW, the brake kits I've seen for the Z are fairly expensive--$2-4K. At that point it would seem to make more sense to just move to the model with the Brembo's.

Clay wrote: If I were in that price range, I think I would look at a S2000. I hear they make great dedicated track cars. Honda reliability to boot. Just an idea, but if you are wanting more power than the Boxter it might not work for you.

Don't the Boxster and 350Z have similar horsepower/weight? If I recall, the S2000 can get through the 1/4 slightly faster than a 350z, purely because it weighs so much less.

If he really wants more power, Corvette is going to be the way to go.

MikenOH wrote: The Z on the other hand, still has the factory warranty and should be good to go save tires and pads.

Except that you won't have that warranty. The damage that gets done to your car on the track is not going to be covered by warranty. If they find out that it's a dedicated track car, that'll probably void your warranty altogether. If this is a dedicated track car, it'll probably be obvious too.

If you're doing as many events as it sounds like, and you have the money, invest in safety: full cage, seats, harnesses, and HANS device. Buy something inexpensive enough that you can afford that work, or buy something already prepped with all of that.

I still think a C4 sounds like the best thing for you. You can use the money you save to take it to a shop and have them make sure everything is ready for track abuse.

Edit: also, do you have a tow-vehicle and trailer?

I hear C4 ZR-1's have been coming down in price lately too!

First off let me refine one thing i said about this being a dedicated track car. I could have put it better as a DE/auto-x car used occasionally on the street, meaning a real interior,/A/C and everthing else associated with a normal street car

I did some quick math and the Z comes in at 10.8HP/LB (3300/306) vs. the Boxster (2.7L) at 12.1 (2900/240). Torque is another matter-- 2900/200= 14.5ft Lb/ Lb vs. 3300/270= 12.2. So putting the gearing issues aside, the Z has a significant amount more HP and torque relative to my car.

BTW< I've driven an S2000 and while they are quick, i felt they were a bit too twitchy for me. I can see them at an auto-x but not at a track--just my preference.

Regarding warranty, if I do 4-6 DE's a year, change my pads and my own oil changes, realistically,how will a dealer know if it's been to a track or going down an interstate? How will it be obvious? I've been doing this in Boxsters for 10 years and my cars look like they've come out of the showroom?

Your thoughts about the roll cage and Harness are something I've been thinking about but just not practical for a daily driver convertible like the boxster--hence my interest in a coupe.

Finally, I like the notion of something to drive on the track that has a few of the latest safety devices like stability control, which can be turned off. On the Boxster these are not intrusive but can be life savers. this is one less capability available on older cars like the C4.

EDIT: DOH... just read the above post. Must have crossed in the mail ;)

Compared to a the sublime-ness of the Boxter a C4 vette is going to feel like a bucket of rocks and that extra power is offset by numb steering, flibbery chassis, and some high wear costs on tires and brakes... unless you drop a lot of coin on mods like a cage...

If its a dedicated track car why not pick up someone elses race car? You don't really need more power to spank a street car... just less weight, stiff bones and so on. An E36 GTS3/IP race car will eat the lunch of any street car you can think of including the supercars of the world, a good many other race cars and you can pick one up with spares for 15-20k.

I just sold a car with slightly over 225wHp that could lap the Glen at 2:14.xx, Summit Point at 1:23.xx all day long for $16k with 2 sets of wheels, a box of race pads and a set of brand new rubber.

Are you planning to sell the Boxster to buy this? It sounds like not, that this will be a secondary car. Put a cage in. Or if not a full cage, at least a solid 4-point bar. The intrusion won't be a big deal on a second car.

The dealer will notice, because chances are that you're not going to do damage by abusing the drivetrain. You're going to broadside a barrier or snap suspension linkages by dropping a wheel off the edge. Plus they'll know it's a track car because you'll have a roll-bar and DOT-Rs pretty shortly.

The S2000 twitchiness is the rear suspension. It was updated when they put the 2.2 in to dial out some of that snap oversteer. You can also have the alignment adjusted to make it more stable. They're amazing cars on track.

If this is a second car, why do you care about stability control? It's your second car. It's your track car. You're not going to be driving it in the rain. If you're doing regular HPDE, you'll have reflexes and skill to not need those safety features. People have gotten by without them just fine for quite a while now.

The safety feature you'll need is rollover, and probably side-impact protection for on the track. A solid roof is not nearly as good as a rollbar.

Edit: Or... turbo Miata. Get an NB, so you have "new car" features. FM kit, and you can push out the same HP as the Boxster but on an 800lbs diet.

Forgot to mention I have to drive this car to the track--no tow vehicle or trailer nor any intention o getting one.

Regarding the stability control, I guess different people have different views on the subject, but,having driven one with it for the past 3 year, I wouldn't be without it On the Boxster, you can turn it off but it wil come back on with the intervention of ABS. I have the PASM also so in the sport mode it's not off but not intrusive.

BTW. my wife and both drive the car at the track so I think she feels a bit safer knowing that this device can help her if she gets in over her head.

You don't drive in the rain? I don't like to, but here are times when you've signed up for a couple of days you just have to go and drive since you won't get your money back. Additionally, showers will come and go and the track will dry when the sun comes out. All day rains are one thing but an occasional shower...that won't keep me off the track.

Salanis has made some good points here. But what you're looking for is "Yes, go do it."

I've tracked both my cars. A Mazdaspeed3 and now a turbo Miata. I bought the Miata because I didn't want to wad up the get-to-work car. It was cheap and I'll walk away from it in a worst case scenario without a tear. So let's approach this from another angle.

You've mentioned you're a Porsche owner.

You've also mentioned how pristine your cars are after tracking

Then you mention that the wife is going to share the car with you at track days.

What's going to be your reaction when she, god forbid, dings the new 350z? I'm a pretty level headed guy but my natural reaction would not be conducive to marital bliss. Also, my g/f would be able to tell in microseconds.

If you want some gadgetry and a shiny new car...get one. If you want a track rat, then get one of those.

Course, I see plenty of new cars at the track every time I go. The risk for me to take a new car to the track is too great. I'm not rich so I can't afford to walk away from a $20k write-off without feeling like a complete tool.

..but that's just my POV ya know? It sounds like your mind is made up about the 350Z so go for it.

350Z= fatty fatty fatty.

I'd pass.

The S will be faster on most tracks than the Z. I have both. My Z stays on the street where it belongs and the S stays on the tracks where it belongs.

The S's Twitchyness is usually associated more with the younger guys transitioning from a FWD Civic and getting behind the wheel of their first RWD car more so than any suspension issues. They have softened up the suspension as years went by to make it more of a boulevard cruiser.

If you are putting it on the track you'll put coilovers on it and can tune your suspension to fit your driving style.

You'll love the S on the track, but you'll learn to hate the Z on the track. You will need to upgrade the brake pads, but that's it as far as brakes go on the S. Tires will be expensive on both.

The S does have one quirk you will need to be aware of, the stock tire sizes are actually oversized. This means you can't just go by rated tire size, you will need to look at actual tire width when you replace the rubber to make sure you keep the proper front to rear balance of the car. Many guys just run the same size tire front and rear on the S and disable the sway bar. That can make running the S a much easier proposition since you can rotate tires.

Xceler8x wrote: If you want some gadgetry and a shiny new car...get one. If you want a track rat, then get one of those.

That's the answer.

As for stability control and gadgets: I see a use for them, on the street. I don't want things getting too exciting on the street. It's a lot of fun to hang it all out at the track. I enjoy a bit of oversteer and wheelspin when I put the power down coming out of a turn.

If this is going to be a track car though. Budget for real safety equipment. You can afford it. I'd rather have a full cage around me than 500hp or magical stability computers that can read my mind and adjust braking at each corner of the car to prevent understeer or spins.

Stability control will not protect you from another car. It won't be able to help you if you hit a slick patch or blow a turn and fly off the track. I'm pretty sure that most systems will completely freak out if you get two wheels on a surface with a completely different level of traction (i.e. if you go two-wheels-off).

If you can afford it, invest in the best safety equipment you can afford. Work that into your budget. Again:

Invest in the best safety equipment you can afford.

I'm going to agree with Salanis on the stability issue... if you require stability control to drive your best lap you need more lessons not more aids - and it isn't going to save you from physics in the case of really bad decision-making behind the wheel. Its like a teddy bear... you only think you need it because it makes you feel secure.

As for track driving in the rain - it is a lot of fun and will make you car control god, the kind that pokes fun at people for insisting on driving aids ;)

MikenOH wrote: To answer your first question, I'd prefer not to but have been prepared to ball up a $50K+ Boxster for the past 3 years.

I think a good way to pick a price point on a dedicated track car is: imagine you get the car, drive it for 2 good years of fun track days, and then completely ball it up as a total write off.

Then you go out for drinks with the guys that evening:

Will you be bragging and laughing about how badass you are for walking away from the crash, and you're ready to buy another car?

Or will you be lamenting the loss of your investment?

And speaking of girlfriends/wives on track in your car, and how nice of one to get: My girlfriend spun my Miata into a dirt pit. Completely coated the car, inside and out, in a layer of dirt. I laughed and gave her a hard time that I was supposed to get the opportunity to spin it out first. If that had been my BMW, I'd have been grumbling as we detailed the interior.

I have your answer, LSx swap miata with a cage, besides, Miata is ALWAYS the answer.

Thanks guys--I appreciate the input.

I like the Miata idea--if I'd have kept our 91, it would be just about ripe for a LSx motor right about now. What a vision...

The Z may not be the answer; I had my hopes up but if the vehicle dynamics (weight/WB/brakes) just aren't there, it doesn't make sense. The Boxster has probably spoiled us; it is so balanced it is a joy to drive at the track as well as on the street. I don't think we'd be happy struggling with something that doesn't cope with turns well.

Salanis--what do you drive?

What about fixing up the Boxster?

I have a '94 Miata (base model with no power steering, ABS, A/C, or anything) and a '99 M Coupe (Z3). You can see them if you click on my profile.

After 3 track days and 3 drift events in the BMW, I got the Miata, because I figure it's cheaper than repairing body damage to the BMW (even if I don't do anything structural). I actually enjoy driving the Miata more than driving the BMW. It's just so incredibly tossable and fun. And cheaper. And easier to work on. And I laugh whenever I pass an S2000 or Mustang.

My girlfriend also loves driving the Miata. She was concerned about hurting the BMW.

If you really like the balance of the Boxster, Miata handling will make you very happy. If you like the luxury and Marquee, a 944 is a good option. I have a family friend with a Boxster he's planning to get rid of. He likes Porsches, and is considering a 944 track/auto-x car when he sells it.

If you like the idea of a Miata, an NB with rollbar and turbo might be a good fit. Fun, modern accoutrement, handling, HP/lbs.

Here you go. Second one down: http://www.flyinmiata.com/us/for_sale.asp