350z as track day car

I will mention it again. Solstice GXP or Z0K.

http://www.solsticeforum.com/forum/f48/

Can't believe no one has mentioned one of the best track cars ever.

E36 M3. You can get one pretty damn cheap, they're durable, easy to work on, reasonably cheap parts and a real hoot to drive.

http://sfbay.craigslist.org/sfc/cto/950620570.html

Nuff said.

I have an '04 350Z that I've been doing track days with for a few years. They are a little heavy but they get around the track well. They are easy on tires but hard on brakes. The stock brakes will not cut it for track work unless you get one with the Brembos. Even then, they eat a lot of pads (at least in my experience). I'm planning to add brake ducts to my car to see if I can extend the pad life. I have a Stoptech 13" front kit on my car, 350 Evo sway bars and nothing else. The car is very fast. Back when I ran R-compounds (275/40-17 Nitto 555R2 on 17x9 wheels), the car was significantly quicker than an Elise/Exige at Grattan and Gingerman and about as quick as an S2000 on Hoosiers. The only reason I've replaced track tires has been from heat cycling. I switched to street tires a couple of years ago to save money. With street tires, I can run street pads on the track without significant fade. My shocks also wore out this year (although after 48000 miles and 40+ trackdays I'm OK with that) and I replaced them with some Koni Yellows.

Aside from the brake wear, the only other issue I have (and it seems to be common) is hub flex. The front wheel bearings where which allows the rotor to flex relative to the calipers and causes pad knockback. I'm replacing my front wheelbearings/hubs over the winter to try and fix the problem. I also had my seat bottom detach from the seat as a result of the seta frame flexing one time (I just bent the sheetmetal frame to hold the seat bottom more securely). If you have any specific questions about the car, fire away.

I bought the car to daily drive and do trackdays. Since I moved to Michigan, I don't daily drive it much anymore (roads are too rough). Serving that compromie, its great. As a dedicated track car that you can drive to the track, I'd buy a C4 Corvette. I wouldn't even consider anything else. They are way fast (handling and power are both fantastic), way cheap (a friend of mine bought one for $2500 and took it to the track the next weekend), and aftermarket support is there for anything you need. There is no other car that matches the performance/price ratio.

In reply to stumpmj:

Stumpmj: thanks for the reply; Any particular year you' d recommend? I hear the 06 models had a lot of oil burning issues.

I suspect you'd also suggest the track model compared to the others..; haven't seen many of those up for sale.

In the effort of complete disclosure...like I stated before..I'm tracking a turbo Miata. There are days where I wished I had just left it stock but the turbo shove really makes me smile.

I will say, for track use, a Miata is the refrigerator of track tools. It is reliable with just the barest maintenance. Also, as Salanis said, It's damned fun to pass faster cars on even a fast track like VIR.

docwyte wrote: Can't believe no one has mentioned one of the best track cars ever. E36 M3. You can get one pretty damn cheap, they're durable, easy to work on, reasonably cheap parts and a real hoot to drive.

I left that out because he wanted something with more power. The E36 M3 is going to have essentially the same pwr/weight as the Boxster.

Although they can be purchased pretty inexpensively, they're a bit tougher to add power to.

stumpmj - consider anti-knockback springs for your StopTech calipers to help address the pad knock back issues.

SCC ran an article a couple years ago about getting 1g on a stock Z, and it amounted to the following:

sticky street tires (BFG KDW2s I believe), Hotchkis adjustable roll bars, 18x9.5 wheels all around, limited slip

I think it was a Performance trim level, but I'm not sure. Anywho, I'm trying to save up to do that on my 07 Enthusiast, but wedding costs are a priority over that... (Who'd a thunk that?)

The rollbars and getting the wheels evened out should help it out quite a bit. It'd definitely make a huge difference on turn-in.

350Z is a fine track car. It's heavy and eats brakes, but it's quick and forgiving and fun.

An S2000 is a very good track car. Great power and, once you address the rear toe control issue, great handling. But it is a convertible, the steering sucks, and there are some ergonomic issues. But they are a blast to drive and very quick on track.

There are a lot of fancy cars being sold very cheap right now due to the economy. I'd look at buying someone else's track car, preferably with safety equipment already installed, such as cage, seat, and belts.

Or, but a cage in the Boxster and add a supercharger, or a 996 motor. Whee!

David

The steering on a S is NICE, not sucky. http://grassrootsmotorsports.com/media/img/icons/smilies/cool-18.png

Actually it's easy to add power to the E36 M3. There are several turbo and supercharger kits out there.

where is keith? I'm sure Flyin' Miata will be happy to take 20 large off your hands and, in return, give you a little bundle of fun that can be set up to do exactly what you want it to do. You want more power than the boxter? I'm certain that it can be done. Less weight? Those litle bastards can easily get right close to 2000 pounds. Even less weight? I think they'll build you a locost. Take 1000 pounds off that figure.

The answer, as I'm sure you know, is always Miata.

If you feel like it is not the answer, talk to your doctor (vaccines are available). Then check out the C5 Z06. Aren't these coming into your price range now? BMWs are also quite common at my local track (and they're deceptively easy to maintain). But like Salanis, I too have a Z3 and a Miata and I enjoy the Miata a lot more.

Safety should be at the top of your list. You don't need a 6-point cage, but a couple 5-point harnesses, secure seats, and a more conservative cage will benefit and protect you. (what are the details involved in installing a roll bar in a solstice / sky? Does anybody know? I couldn't figure out myself. Can you retain the convertible top?)

MikenOH wrote: In reply to stumpmj: Stumpmj: thanks for the reply; Any particular year you' d recommend? I hear the 06 models had a lot of oil burning issues. I suspect you'd also suggest the track model compared to the others..; haven't seen many of those up for sale.

I'd get a track pack car if it was cheap (think less than a $1000 premium over the regular cars). You'll probably want to get Stoptech rotors or some other aftermarket rotor because the stock Brembo rotors were outrageously expensive last time I checked. I got my front bir brakte for under $1000 and some people offer a Wilwood based four wheel kit for< $1500. Look around a bit. Make sure the car you're looking at has the factory limited slip. It varied from year to year as to which trim level got it. It sucks (really weak) but most aftermarket limited slips require you to have had the factory one.

The 06 models had huge oil consumption issues related to the designed Rev Up engine. I think if you get a latermodel (the engine with 2 air cleaners/inteks/throttle bodies), they fixed the issue. Mine's an 04 and doesn't burn any oil at all. I would also avoid an 03 or an early build 04. They had trans issues and a poorly calibrated shock/spring combo.

So, my recommendation is a later build 04 (I think post October 03 builds are OK) or an 05. With those two model years, get an Enthusiest, Performance, or Track options package to get the limited slip. Performance, or Track get you stabilty control but its very intrusive and will prevent you from driving remotely entusiastickly (rumor has it the only way to fully disable it is to pull the ABS fuse or to disconnect the g sensor if the center console).

If you get a track, don't pay a big premium and be prepared to buy good rotors for it (I reccomend Stop Tech 2 piece rotors) for big dollars in the near future (I think they're around $400 per rotor). On any model, get some 17x9-17x10 wheels to support popular and cheaper tire sizes (I use 17x9 with 275/40-17 tires all around). 18x9.5 will work well with 265/35-18 tires but they'll be pricy. You'll want after market front and rear swaybars to get rid of the understeer (I have 350 evo, hotchkiss are also supposed to be good). You may break sway bar links on occasion after that. If you do, upgrade links at that time. I went a couple of years before breaking mine. If you get a non-track package, you need at least a front big brake kit before you can go to the track. If you want one, Kirk racing makes roll bar kits that are supposed to fit very well without costing too much.

Sorry for the length of the post.

OK, so I finally watched my TiVo of the SCCA T2 race from the runoffs and have changed my opinion. If you are willing to convert a 350Z to a partial tube chassis and spend a fat pile of cash on development you can score a gold and silver in a national competition in one... but watch out for the guy in the old Sunbeam Tiger... its wicked fast in a straight line.

The answer is always Miata. What about an E30 3 Series? I'm sure you could pick up a good example for a few grand and then spend the rest of safety equipment, tires, brakes, etc. This might be a long shot or blasphemy but how about an eg Civic? Not sure if he still has it but the head of the BMW CCA's track car was a Civic.

In reply to stumpmj:

Thanks--that was exactly the the type of info I was looking for on the Z. Again, this was going to be a track day car for club DE's--not NASA or SCCA events and it would have to function as a driver on the street.

We've driven a Z but not on a track, so I'd hate to make the mistake of thinking it will be what we're looking for without asking the appropriate questions. I thought our stock RZX8 would be a get auto-x car but I couldn't sit in t he car with a helmet without reclining the seat 20 deg (and I'm only 5' 11" and there was enough body roll to make me think about motion sickness pills before the event--way different than the Boxster.

As others have suggested, an early C5 ZO6 with roll bar and harness would make for a nice package, but anything with less than 50K on it is still above the price range.

Anyway,Thanks for all the help--I've got the info I was looking for. BTW, I tried numerous Z forums on this question and really didn't learn much.

We love you Miken. Come here anytime you want some well meant abuse and calmly stated opinions.

Actually, if you love the car and tracked it...you'd have a blast. I think pilots and their planes are like car guys and their cars. A pilot could be flying the worst piece of crap ever built ferrying rubber dog feces to Hong Kong...but to him...that's the best plane in the air.

MikenOH wrote: Thanks--that was exactly the the type of info I was looking for on the Z. Again, this was going to be a track day car for club DE's--not NASA or SCCA events and it would have to function as a driver on the street.

Don't discount NASA HPDE's. They are a good deal. They have put together a very solid program and offer one of the lowest prices for well-instructed track time.

I'd say they're actually the best value for beginning HPDE instruction. Instructors are required to have special training, and you get the same instructor for the whole event. Other HPDEs either cost twice the price for the same level of instruction, or cost the same amount but offer no instruction or just throw you in with a spec racer who may be a good driver, but not necessarily a good instructor.

You don't have to be competitive to do NASA events. And membership comes with a free GRM subscription.

I'm a huge fan of NASA. My opinion isn't colored at all due to the fact that I'm an instructor with them.

They run a great program that's very safe and you learn a ton. Definitely check em out!

Salanis: Do you have a list of NASA HPDE events? I usually do several events/ yr. at Mid-OH--since it only a few miles down the road--and am interested in what they offer for HPDE.

I'm in NorCal, but it looks like you'd be in the Great Lakes region of NASA. Here is their schedule:

http://racenasa.nasamidwest.com/season/

NASA's main site is at: http://www.nasaproracing.com

I haven't taken mine to any autocross events yet (maybe next year? Depends on budget...), but I absolutely love driving my Z. I don't know how it'd be for someone coming from a Porsche, but I wouldn't hesitate to use it as a track-day car.

And now that it's wintertime, I really miss it :(

In reply to Salanis:

Regarding the technical requirements for participating cars, they mention a roll cage for open cars, with the exception of certain cars that have factory systems--does anybody know if the Boxster Std. hoops are good enough for roll over protection? The Porsche Clubs use the " broom stick" rule, so if you pass that you're good to go with the top up.

MikenOH wrote: In reply to Salanis: Regarding the technical requirements for participating cars, they mention a roll cage for open cars, with the exception of certain cars that have factory systems--does anybody know if the Boxster Std. hoops are good enough for roll over protection? The Porsche Clubs use the " broom stick" rule, so if you pass that you're good to go with the top up.

I'm not an official, so don't take my final word, but. My understanding is that the factory rollover protection in the Boxster, Z3, Z4, and S2000 are all Kosher.

The "broomstick" rule is pretty standard. When in doubt, contact a local NASA rep. They're usually pretty good. I bet they have an FAQ with your answer, too.