What a day! Last night I got caught in the rain on my bicycle and ended up going over the bars. This morning, I wake up and the old Corolla Wagon doesn't want to start. I hop in the beater F350 and it lumbers in to work with the spark plug wires grounding all over the place, stumbling like crazy. AAHHH!
Anyway, The Corolla has been giving me problems, but only intermittently, over the past couple of months. Some mornings, the thing just doesn't want to fire up. Fortunately, the last two times it happened, it was on a weekend. Today, not so much. The first thing I did was hold the choke open and see if that helped. Nope. Then I pulled a plug wire and tested for spark with the screwdriver-in-the-plug-wire method. Yep, I've got spark. Next step: Fog it down with starter fluid. Nothing (WHAT!?).
So, since the thing only seemes to give me trouble when it's wet out, I'm guessing it's spark related (plug wires/plugs/moisture).
A year ago (+100%/-50%) I did cap, rotor, plug wires, and...and I didn't have the right size socket to get at the plugs so I didn't do the plugs. I have the plugs, and will swap them out this evening. It certainly can't hurt. Anyone know the correct gap for stock plugs on a completely stock '82 Corolla?
If that doesn't do it, all I can really do is go through the connections and grounds in the ignition system and clean them up. I DO have power to the end of the plug wires though...
Any other thoughts? I should be able to figure this out, and probably will, but a little moral support goes a long way (not so much dope slaps for not changing the plugs a year ago) ;).
Clem
Even though you have spark I would bet you have a bad ignitor (module) or coil/coil wire.
I'd love to hear more info on this possibility.
Edit: Yikes! $300 for a new ignition control!
This is why folks upgrade to MSD, yes?
Thanks!
Clem
So,
I need to look into this ignitor failure. IF that's my problem, it seems like it's possible to convert to a GM HEI ignition module with all the rest of the stock parts. However, I haven't seen any details on HOW to do this yet. If anyone knows about that, please share!
Fortunately, I've got the '83 that I can borrow parts from if need be, until I get things figured out.
Clem
http://www2.zhome.com:81/ZCMnL/tech/gmhei.html
SUBSTITUTE anything that says anything to do with Datsun to fit your model ;)
or
http://www.clubprotege.com/wil/howto/hei/index.htm
If you prefer to substitute the word Mazda ;)
This one actually has Toyoterds in it!
http://www.tercel4wd.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=2461
Worn out plugs can definitely make it hard to start when cold.
Long shot: is this the screwball Toyota system that used points to fire the ignitor? Reason I ask, on those you can bypass the 'ignitor', stick a condenser on the outside of the dizzy and you now have a conventional points ignition system. BTDT.
If it's a magnetic pickup type, yeah I'd do the GM HEI module. Eay and cheap. Just remember to mount the module on some sort of heat sink.
Before you go and spent money on the ignition system, there is something you should try. I had the same problem with my Corolla and like you, only when it was wet out. It turns out that when it rained, I was getting water in the tank and the car would not start.
Go to your local auto parts store and pick up a bottle of Methyl Hydrate, and pour some into the tank (I think I put about a 1/2 cup in) Let it sit overnight, then try and start it up in the morning.
Worked for me.
Mark
Thanks for the info all.
JohnB. I could only get to one of those links, but I think it's got all the info I need, Thanks!
JensenMan. I'm pretty sure this is NOT one of those oddballs. I think the points would have impressed me when I changed the cap and rotor. Plus, it's the last year of this engine (in Corolla's in the US, anyway) so... (however, I'll check to be sure)
So one ther thing. Every now and then while cranking this morning, it would fire just a little. Not enough to catch and run, but enough that it was obviously "firing."
In the past (two times) when it has done this, it always fired up eventually when I had the choke propped open and I assumed that I had somehow managed to flood it. It might have been like an hour later that it finally started, but it did.
It wasn't particularly cold this morning (40 F or so) but it was more damp than it's been in months (lots of rain last night).
Thanks again for the help. 'Til I can get home and fix this sucker, I'm going to be on edge. I don't want to drive the F350 to work again tomorrow! A few more days of that might pay for an OEM ignitor for this Corolla ;).
Clem
The only problem I ever had with any of my old 2TC or 3TC Toyotas was failed spark plug wires shorting out inside the tube going down to the plugs, and I had that same problem with all 4 of them every 60k miles or so. Pull the wire off the plug, and out of the tube, and you get great spark at the end, but the plugs never fire.
Mainlandboy...That could be an issue. I know for a fact that my fuel fill coupler/tube leaks. That's why I rarely top the tank off. Hmmm. If water was managing to get in there, that could explain why it cranks and cranks and cranks and eventually fires up. Maybe something to look into.
Oldeopelguy...That was kind of what I was thinking. My plug wires really aren't that old or in bad shape. however, when driving in the rain, it sometimes displays the tell-tale stumbling of bad spark plug wires (missing on cylinders until you get the rpms up).
Thanks folks!
Clem
Hey all,
It fired up with new plugs. It started hard (probably clearing out the WD40 I sprayed into the cylinders while I had the plugs out...??? and then it stumbled once or twice when I first started driving. Otherwise, it's been fine so far.
I'm not sure if it was just the plugs, or maybe the plugs were the weak link and the ignitor is on it's way out too. Probably just the plugs, but I'll keep an eye on it and will prepare for the GM HEI module swap if need be (and be ready to hork the igniter from my inop '83).
Funny story. I hosed down the #1 plug hole with WD 40 since it was resisting beign removed from it's home for the last who-knows-how-many years. Then I decided to check that plug for spark, conveniently grounded agains the valvecover right where I sprayed the WD40. I certainly had spark, and a flash of fireball momentarily. Lol...that was funny!
Clem
Same happened to my 4AGE. I had replaced the OEM plugs with "premium" plugs, careful to get the right ones for my application. Nothing, Going back to the standard plugs recommended by Toyota solved the problem.
The plugs I put in were some "NGK" ones...the ones the guy at the parts store gave me, I guess. They had a V-notch in the electrode. I don't know why I bought those ones, but I guess NGK are fine.
The plugs that came out looked pretty bad. They were pretty corroded and the electrodes were rounded. They were all gas-fouled.
Clem
ClemSparks wrote:
The plugs I put in were some "NGK" ones...the ones the guy at the parts store gave me, I guess. They had a V-notch in the electrode. I don't know why I bought those ones, but I guess NGK are fine.
The plugs that came out looked pretty bad. They were pretty corroded and the electrodes were rounded. They were all gas-fouled.
Clem
Toyotas love NGKs.... (a lot of them used to come with them as original equipment anyways) but HATE bosch. My car misfires like crazy with brand new bosch plugs.
I dunno why, but many times over the years I have seen Bosch platinum plugs cause cold driveability problems. It even happened on my hotrodded '72 MGB with a sidedraft Weber, it just ran like crap when cold. In desperation I stuck a set of the 'Supers' (regular big electrode plug) in it and it never missed a beat after that.
I put NGK copper plugs in everything. They are cheap and work better than anything else you can buy, as long as you don't mind replacing them annually.
