4-cylinder crate engines?

ransom wrote: In reply to njansenv: Is the aluminum block really *that* much lighter? I confess to dubiousness... Even if it is, the nose-heaviness of this car makes me want to stay away from long engines. I'd be more tempted by a similarly-weighted V6. While I'd love to avoid the plumbing, it really seems like a turbo four is going to be the best combination of packaging and autocross-friendly flat torque curve. If I can substitute displacement for turbo (perhaps the 2.4L Ecotec mentioned above), that might work out...

Word is, the M54 is ~20lbs heavier than an S14 (E30 M3 engine). I'd expect a DOHC M42/4 to be about the same. Add a turbo and you're at nearly equal weights. Weights I've heard (take them with a grain or three of salt...) S14 350lbs
M54 375lbs
M20 438lbs
M50 440lbs
S50 440lbs
I get what you're saying about polar moment....though the difference might be mitigated a little if you plan on using a front mount intercooler.

Ian F wrote:

ransom wrote:

m4ff3w wrote: http://www.turnkeyenginesupply.com/products/2.4L-Ecotec-4cyl-190-HP.html

Holy carp! On closer inspection, that's a remarkably complete package. It's a chunk for someone more accustomed to junkyards and home rebuilds, but that's everything from ECU to engine oil... Neat!

Yeah... definitely interesting... How hard is it to find a RWD bell housing for an Ecotec?

Pontiac Solstice/Saturn SKY.

Man... I've got a standing Craigslist search for a scale I can use to weigh engines (not that I'll have access to all the candidates).

The difficulty of getting reliable data for engine weights is horrendous. I know of a site or two that have engine weights, but they're compiled from different sources, with notes for what state the engine was in. It's like a giant basket of apples and oranges as described by people with rose-tinted glasses and nonstandard scales...

What about an F20/F22 out of an S2000?

240hp and comes with a RWD transmission

First google link says the shipping weight of a complete ecotec turbo kit is 70 lbs

http://www.atpturbo.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=tp&Product_Code=ATP-COB-001&Category_Code=BCS

In reply to e_pie:

I've never actually driven an S2000, but my impression is that while they make a bunch of power and are absolute screamers, they're not much for torque. This strikes me as both sub-optimal for autocross (though I know S2000s do well there) and a bit out of character for the 2002.

I should go look at some dyno charts and find out what "no torque" is in real terms...

FWIW, I like the idea of keeping the thing remotely period-looking. There was a bunch of Duratec 2.5L (I think) motors being sold through e-bay a while ago, and selling for under a grand. That motor is extremely light and will easily top 200 HP with a little bit of help on the breathing end. So here's the recipe: e-bay Duratec($900), cams and header ($1,000), megajolt ($400), intake manifold with Mikunis: ($1,000). Cover up the plastic belt and cam covers with Aluminum, and you've got a lightweight, high HP motor that looks like it belongs on that car.

Also bear in mind that these varous high HP options will overwhelm the recipients stock suspension/brakes IMO.

In reply to kreb:

Where rules don't require it, I will never own another carburetor again... I'm intrigued by the Duratec option. I'm guessing a 200hp 2.5L engine's going to have a pretty healthy torque curve. Hrm... couldn't find any 2.5L fours on eBay... Or 2.3, which was the other that sprang to mind (was SVT Focus a 2.3L?)

The stock suspension and brakes are going in the bin. The front end's starting from scratch from the subframe out, and possibly the rear as well, depending on my sanity after doing the front.

ransom wrote: In reply to e_pie: I've never actually driven an S2000, but my impression is that while they make a bunch of power and are absolute screamers, they're not much for torque. This strikes me as both sub-optimal for autocross (though I know S2000s do well there) and a bit out of character for the 2002. I should go look at some dyno charts and find out what "no torque" is in real terms...

yea i think it'd be a great engine for the car. my friend's putting a 2.0L engine in his (some pics here, looks good in there) and according to him when you compare an S2000 to a stock 2002's m10 it still makes about 20%+ MORE torque while increasing rpm range and more than doubling horsepower

Ford has announced it is expanding its lineup of racing engines in 2012 with the availability of a naturally aspirated, 2.0-liter inline four-cylinder “Crate Engine Concept.” Ford says this engine is the precursor for a range of production-based I-4 offerings.

2.8 engine

MichaelClark wrote: Ford has announced it is expanding its lineup of racing engines in 2012 with the availability of a naturally aspirated, 2.0-liter inline four-cylinder “Crate Engine Concept.” Ford says this engine is the precursor for a range of production-based I-4 offerings. 2.8 engine

Beat me to it. This should be the 2.0 Ecoboost.

Instead of the KA24 do a SR20de or SR20det instead...

There are many JDM engine suppliers that carry these with ECU and all for swaps into Nissans...

I'd agree with that, it's a reliable aluminum mill with a solid RWD trans already attached. Earlier S13 versions have a T25, later S14 versions have a nicer T28 as well as variable cam timing for some extra midrange grunt. With just some bigger injectors and a readily available ECU tune, you could do 250-280 whp or so with a T28 and a nice powerband. They'll run all day with 350-400 whp on stock internals so the engine would be unstressed at this power level.

There doesn't seem to be much RWD SR20 love on this board which is surprising to me. It's just an easy option in many cases. I wish they were easier to swap into a Miata!

noddaz wrote: Instead of the KA24 do a SR20de or SR20det instead... There are many JDM engine suppliers that carry these with ECU and all for swaps into Nissans...

I've seen them in anything from S13s to Escorts.

The answer (wait for it) may be Miata. Mazdaspeed sells crate motors for Spec Miata.

Another choice, though probably underpowered for your purposes, would be the 1.5 liter Honda Fit motor as supplied to Formula F in SCCA.

ransom wrote: In reply to kreb: Where rules don't require it, I will never own another carburetor again... I'm intrigued by the Duratec option. I'm guessing a 200hp 2.5L engine's going to have a pretty healthy torque curve. Hrm... couldn't find any 2.5L fours on eBay... Or 2.3, which was the other that sprang to mind (was SVT Focus a 2.3L?) The stock suspension and brakes are going in the bin. The front end's starting from scratch from the subframe out, and possibly the rear as well, depending on my sanity after doing the front.

SVT Focus was 2.0 Zetec

iceracer wrote:

ransom wrote: In reply to kreb: Where rules don't require it, I will never own another carburetor again... I'm intrigued by the Duratec option. I'm guessing a 200hp 2.5L engine's going to have a pretty healthy torque curve. Hrm... couldn't find any 2.5L fours on eBay... Or 2.3, which was the other that sprang to mind (was SVT Focus a 2.3L?) The stock suspension and brakes are going in the bin. The front end's starting from scratch from the subframe out, and possibly the rear as well, depending on my sanity after doing the front.

SVT Focus was 2.0 Zetec

Keep in mind, the SVT head is interference, which I always avoid.

Complete left field choice but much like an LSx you can swap them in to anything,

http://www.gearheadengines.com/rotary

http://www.rotaryplanet.com/rebuiltrotaryengine.htm

http://www.rx7store.net/product_p/20b%20engine.htm

And before you know it you will be this quick,

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UhDgaHRMLUU

Not to be "that Guy" but this thread is over a year old and I bet Ransom already has a motor. However, I like hearing about crate motors so is fine.

singleslammer wrote: Not to be "that Guy" but this thread is over a year old and I bet Ransom already has a motor. However, I like hearing about crate motors so is fine.

I was actually delighted to see more input!

I'm still working on the expansion of the half-carport half-garage to two-car garage. The poor 2002 is still waiting its turn.

Basil Exposition wrote: The answer (wait for it) may be Miata. Mazdaspeed sells crate motors for Spec Miata.

Maybe not from MazdaComp, but a really good low mileage 99/00 1.8L from a Miata is the ticket. I have both a 2002 race car and a Miata race car. The 2002 M10 has been reworked (head, cam, carb etc...) fun but $$$$ vs the low mileage 99/00 1.8 miata motor for $. Would also be nice to use the stock 5 speed from a Miata too.

ransom wrote: Man... I've got a standing Craigslist search for a scale I can use to weigh engines (not that I'll have access to all the candidates). The difficulty of getting reliable data for engine weights is horrendous. I know of a site or two that have engine weights, but they're compiled from different sources, with notes for what state the engine was in. It's like a giant basket of apples and oranges as described by people with rose-tinted glasses and nonstandard scales...

All you need is a bathroom scale, a length of plank and a calculator. Calculator optional.

Place one end of your plank on the scale. Put something other the other end so that it is level.

Now, if you stand in the middle of the plank, the scale will read half your weight. If you need to reduce the weight on the bathroom scale further, just keep moving to the side with out the scale and calculating the ratio.Most scales go to over 200 lbs, so you should be fine in the middle.

In reply to ransom:

Statement retracted. I know how stuff gets put aside, for sure.