5.4 Crown Victoria

Bad idea? Good idea?

Or is this another one of those CarKid pipe dreams...

Thoughts

Bad idea. It's not exactly a great engine and they're expensive. If you really want to upgrade you have 2 choices. 1, a 4V top-end swap ala 01-02 Cobra/03-04 Mach 1/Marauder. Or B, LSx. Me personally? LSx. If/when my engine/trans ever goes I'm going 5.3 LS from a truck with a cam/intake/header combo.

The 5.4 is very tall and offers no real power improvement over a 4.6 as the heads and cams are exactly the same as a 4.6 of the same year. Find a junkyard Mark 8 DOHC for $300 and call it a day.

I've thought about it. There are adapters so your stock intake manifold will work and you can still shut the hood. It's gotta be simpler than a LS swap, by a lot I'd think. I don't know how much more power they're supposed to make, it does seem like 50 more cubic inches couldn't be a bad thing even if the heads and came ARE the same. It was my impression that the dohc 4.6 only made more power at higher rpm. If I'm going to make more power in my p71 it seems like I'd rather have it at lower rpm. I will admit I haven't seen 5.4's for cheap and I'm not sure why that is.

the 5.4 in my Expedition is nothing spectacular and sucks gas like its a dollar a gallon...

The 2v 5.4 makes no more hp than the 4.6L, and has a lower redline. If you're gonna go 5.4, get a 3v from a newer F150, or get a 4v out of a Navigator. Else, like everyone else says, get a 4v. But don't just do a "top end" - stock N/A 32v 4.6s are aluminum block, and in the Cobras came with forged cranks. Spend the extra money for the whole motor.

And ManofFewWords, your 5.4 is nothing on the thristy nature of my truck-block 5.0. That thing sucks down the gas and spites you by barely having enough power to get out of it's own way.

I'm surprised no one mentioned the V-10...

That's somewhat popular from what I've seen.

The V10 is also an anemic gas-swilling turd.

Honestly, a 351 using mounts from a box Vic (same basic frame from 79-02 helps stuff like this out) is probably the cheapest outside of a 4V swap. Though I will admit that a 3V setup sounds like it will fall in a 03+ easily, and that may be even better.

I like the LSx is because all you really need is engine mounts. The ECU's sit in the engine bays (complete self-sustained harness) and the 4-speed auto truck trans uses the same style column-shifter. Not to mention there's about a dozen low-mileage 5.3's complete in boneyards in Portland for under a grand.

I'm putting a 351 from an inerceptor in the wife's 48 Chevrolet and I got to drive it a bit before I pulled it.

That car hauled ass, I was very impressed with the power the big windsor puts out. Cheap too, bought the whole car for $500.00 and kept what I needed.

Shawn

ReverendDexter wrote: The 2v 5.4 makes no more hp than the 4.6L, and has a lower redline. If you're gonna go 5.4, get a 3v from a newer F150, or get a 4v out of a Navigator. Else, like everyone else says, get a 4v. But don't just do a "top end" - stock N/A 32v 4.6s are aluminum block, and in the Cobras came with forged cranks. Spend the extra money for the whole motor. And ManofFewWords, your 5.4 is nothing on the thristy nature of my truck-block 5.0. That thing sucks down the gas and spites you by barely having enough power to get out of it's own way.

I'm interested in seeing a source that the redline is lower on a 5.4. I did find that the 5.4 is only rated to produce 25 more hp than my p.i. 4.6, HOWever, it also has 75 more lb/ft of torque. In contrast, the dohc 4.6 makes 55 more hp, but only 20 extra lb/ft of torque.

belteshazzar wrote: I'm interested in seeing a source that the redline is lower on a 5.4. I did find that the 5.4 is only rated to produce 25 more hp than my p.i. 4.6, HOWever, it also has 75 more lb/ft of torque. In contrast, the dohc 4.6 makes 55 more hp, but only 20 extra lb/ft of torque.

You're right, I pulled that 5.4 lower redline straight out of me arse. I'm assuming that they don't rev as high considering lack of appropriate extra power for the displacement, which could be totally due to cam choice. Either way, I'll stick to my all-aluminum 32v 4.6L over an iron block 2v 5.4.

Yeah, an all aluminum 4.6L is the way to go. If you want more displacement, you can get a 5.0L stroker kit for the 4.6L. $$$$$$

If you're made of money, get the terminator cobra motor.

I'm curious about the 351... IL smog checks are just OBD2 plug-in analysis. I wonder how I can keep my car passing its emission electronic test but still go with a cool and cheap-to-modify engine. Getting power from a naturally aspirated 4.6 looks expensive. I've seen built 351s go for less than a set of heads for my 2v.

Appleseed wrote: If you're made of money, get the terminator cobra motor.

Why? it's iron block, and most termie owners end up swapping the supercharger out for a Kenne-Bell or Whipple anyway.

With the '96-'98 Cobra motor, you have the Teskid (Teksid? I can never keep it straight) block, which is good to 1000hp. In the price you'll pay for a Terminator motor and aftermarket supercharger, you could have a '96-'98 motor stuffed with forged rods and pistons of appropriate compression, do a CMRC plate delete, and top it off with a blower for a motor making every bit as much power (if not more) that weighs considerably less.

Only advantage to the Terminator motor is that it has fully forged internals out of the box, '96-'98 motor only has forged crank. People argue that the Termie heads flow better, but I've seen pro-drag racers that will argue elsewise.

If you want OBDII compliant 351 happiness, I think you'll have to pull one out of an F-series pickup. I know that the '96 Broncos were offered with a 351, so I'm assuming it was an option in pickups, as well.

My opinion for a P71 would be to do the PI swap (get on a mustang board, and you can find the parts pretty cheap - you don't even really need to do the heads, my understanding is that 90% of the gain is in the cams and intake), and get a supercharger on there. More than enough power to make things interesting, and with a proper tune, no reason why you couldn't be making over 400hp at the tires safely.

I have a little experince in the ford builds that you discussed and would offer the following:

the 4v heads would require moving the wiper assembly box, not a job stopper but a few issues. The Mark 8 motor has a ton of spark retard at the low end and the launch isn't where you would want it unless you have a 3.27 axle or higher.

5.4 requires a hood change or a new intake. The 5.4 PI with a 2:73 axle is a very nice package. The 4R70W with the 11.25 converter and flex plate from the Mark 8 will make for some nice launch, no creep at idle, and also get into a nice open converter passing conditions. If you can get into the ECU ( SCT flash) you can add in some of the lower end spark and have a nice driver package.

3v has so many issues, I would stay away till they are all sorted out. A motor that requires special spark plugs makes me very nervious

Pauls High Performance has done all combinations of Panther swaps. I have seen a few of their DOHC saps and they are pretty freaking sweet.

Torque is king though.

Reverend,

All 01 and newer Vics are already PI (Performance Improved). Otherwise I agree with everything you've said.

Personally though, none of the Ford answers sound very good to me, which is why I'm going LSx. More displacement, more power, more torque, lighter weight, cheaper to modify, and better gas mileage.

As good of an idea as that may be, I simply can't bring myself to mix the two auto-makers.

Why not?

Hotrodders have been putting Chevy's in Fords for over 40 years.

I put a Ford in my Chevy, I love it, pisses the bowtie guys off to no end.

Shawn

blaze86vic wrote: As good of an idea as that may be, I simply can't bring myself to mix the two auto-makers.

I don't like it either and I couldn't figure why. I like hybrid swaps normally, but I think they should be something markedly different. A sbc-fc for example. I mean, a v8 swapped panther, meh.

ReverendDexter wrote:

belteshazzar wrote: I'm interested in seeing a source that the redline is lower on a 5.4. I did find that the 5.4 is only rated to produce 25 more hp than my p.i. 4.6, HOWever, it also has 75 more lb/ft of torque. In contrast, the dohc 4.6 makes 55 more hp, but only 20 extra lb/ft of torque.

You're right, I pulled that 5.4 lower redline straight out of me arse. I'm assuming that they don't rev as high considering lack of appropriate extra power for the displacement, which could be totally due to cam choice. Either way, I'll stick to my all-aluminum 32v 4.6L over an iron block 2v 5.4.

The 4.6 already makes peak hp well below redline. It shouldn't be a surprise that the extra 50 cubic inches don't equate to a bunch more peak hp, as you said, considering they have the same heads. To me, that means the 5.4 is a little port work and a pair of mild cams away from being an animal. And as I mentioned, I want as much low end power as possible in a panther. Ford voted with their pocketbook when they made mauraders and did it how you would. On the other hand, all I ever remember hearing about that car when it was new was that it was almost as good as a Impala SS.

And being almost as good as an LT1 is why when I upgrade it's going to be with an LSx...

Oh I agree, I'd prefer an LS to most, it just doesn't have the right ring to it somehow(in a panther).

I disagree I think a P71 with an LSx (preferably even the 6.0) and an "Impala SS" emblem would just be the coolest car. I'd piss off Ford and Chevy guys and actually go fast!