7th-gen Camaro DOA?

In reply to Brett_Murphy :

Thinking about UAW wages and US suppliers makes me think that labor/manufacturing in the US probably isn't really any cheaper than AUS though? And sedans in general weren't selling all that well, so why invest the money into bringing production stateside? If they had plants with available capacity, they should've directed them to make more profitable things that were selling well instead of sedans that would sell in low numbers. There's a reason why GM and others are axing so many of their cars and it's not necessarily because they were slow sellers (although some were). It's because they want to crank out more vehicles with higher profit margins. They're not trying to sell a bunch of cars or flood every niche of the market anymore, they're trying to maximize profits.

infinitenexus said:

 I wonder if they'll try to make the newer one influenced by maybe the 1970?  That could potentially be neat.

You know, with the whole current resurgence of the "Radwood" vibes and 80's/90's nostalgia... that age group of teenagers is now hitting their stride of career development and disposable income in their 30's/40's who might've rememberd the days of IROCs and "rollin in my 5.0" Mustangs but couldn't actually afford them at the time.  Using the 3rd gen influences could actually be reimagined in a very unique and fresh way relative to everything else on the road.  

When the '69 influenced 5th gen came back in 2009, it was 40 years old.  If the next model Camaro hits in 2023 or shortly after if there's a hiatus.... 40 years prior was, 1983:  The 3rd gen was here. Tell me these taillights couldn't be done today with some kind of light tube LED effect and long hard angles and look badass and unique on the street.  

xflowgolf said:

infinitenexus said:

 I wonder if they'll try to make the newer one influenced by maybe the 1970?  That could potentially be neat.

You know, with the whole current resurgence of the "Radwood" vibes and 80's/90's nostalgia... that age group of teenagers is now hitting their stride of career development and disposable income in their 30's/40's who might've rememberd the days of IROCs and "rollin in my 5.0" Mustangs but couldn't actually afford them at the time.  Using the 3rd gen influences could actually be reimagined in a very unique and fresh way relative to everything else on the road.  

When the '69 influenced 5th gen came back in 2009, it was 40 years old.  If the next model Camaro hits in 2023 or shortly after if there's a hiatus.... 40 years prior was, 1983:  The 3rd gen was here. Tell me these taillights couldn't be done today with some kind of light tube LED effect and long hard angles and look badass and unique on the street.  

 

I honestly think that the 3rd-gen Camaro is a really handsomely designed car and kind of underrated. Unfortunately a lot of them are now scruffy bracket racers or trailer trash, and they weren't the best screwed together. But the lines are pretty clean and simple, and when they are done up nice, they are stunners

STM317 said:

In reply to Brett_Murphy :

Thinking about UAW wages and US suppliers makes me think that labor/manufacturing in the US probably isn't really any cheaper than AUS though? And sedans in general weren't selling all that well, so why invest the money into bringing production stateside? If they had plants with available capacity, they should've directed them to make more profitable things that were selling well instead of sedans that would sell in low numbers. There's a reason why GM and others are axing so many of their cars and it's not necessarily because they were slow sellers (although some were). It's because they want to crank out more vehicles with higher profit margins. They're not trying to sell a bunch of cars or flood every niche of the market anymore, they're trying to maximize profits.

You know, given that the US consumer seems to be allergic to buying anything with a trunk, I am surprised they didn't try to reintroduce the ute concept.

Camaro going away, no.

Introducing, The Camaro II:

NickD said:

I honestly think that the 3rd-gen Camaro is a really handsomely designed car and kind of underrated. Unfortunately a lot of them are now scruffy bracket racers or trailer trash, and they weren't the best screwed together. But the lines are pretty clean and simple, and when they are done up nice, they are stunners

Agreed.  The execution left a lot to be desired, but the design itself is very handsome.  I really don't think the "trailer trash" stigma is that relevant today, as 3rd gens have all but disappeared from the roads as neglected daily drivers at this point already.  By the time 2023 rolls around, the newest 3rd gen out there would still be 31+ years old at that point.  

I'm not saying the new car should just be a reboot of a 3rd gen per say, just that there's a lot there to work with design wise for inspiration.  

In reply to NickD :

That is strangely arousing.

Well, i'd say they could copy the 2nd gen, but I think Ford beat them to it.

2015 Mustang

Blank out the rear quarter window and it could be considered an evolution of the design IMHO.  I already thought the last mustang i drove (S197) felt more like a 4th gen than a Fox body. 

^S197 finally moved up from the "4-link" with quad shocks to a panhard rod in the rear as seen on the '82-'02 F-Bodies, so that's at least part of it.

In reply to 06HHR :

There is not a similar line or angle between those two cars. 

lnlogauge said:

In reply to 06HHR :

There is not a similar line or angle between those two cars. 

Agreed. Not seeing it at all.

lnlogauge said:

In reply to 06HHR :

There is not a similar line or angle between those two cars. 

They're both red. That's all I see. Well, that and they're long hood short deck RWD pony cars, but they really look nothing alike.

GCrites80s said:

^S197 finally moved up from the "4-link" with quad shocks to a panhard rod in the rear as seen on the '82-'02 F-Bodies, so that's at least part of it.

Except that's an S550 car with an IRS. 

No live axle with panhard bar. So not sure what you're trying to get at. 

Tom_Spangler said:

lnlogauge said:

In reply to 06HHR :

There is not a similar line or angle between those two cars. 

Agreed. Not seeing it at all.

Me neither.

In reply to NickD :

Maybe if you squint real hard?  That's what I get for posting while day-drinking...   Well, let's say the car gets a reprieve, what direction should the designers go in for the next gen?  Something like the 2nd or 3rd gen? Or something more traditional (and easy to see out of) like the old 130R concept 

Or swoopy like the 140S concept

06HHR said:

In reply to NickD :

Maybe if you squint real hard?  That's what I get for posting while day-drinking...   Well, let's say the car gets a reprieve, what direction should the designers go in for the next gen?  Something like the 2nd or 3rd gen? Or something more traditional (and easy to see out of) like the old 130R concept Or swoopy like the 140S concept

 

2nd/3rd gen for sure.   

IF forced between the two new designs...  more 130R than the swoopy Eclipse lookalike.  The 130R at least looks like it has RWD proportions.  I don't know that it says "Camaro" though.  

In reply to z31maniac :

He was referring to the S197 (2005-2014?) not the car from the picture.  I got one as a rental some years back, 2014 i think.  The later S197s in rental car spec with the uprated 3.7 were actually close in spec to the LT1 4th gen Camaro/Firebird of 1993-1997 (300 ish horse, 3400-3500 pound curb weight.  LT1 had more torque though cause V8).  Both live axle rear with a panhard bar, so they felt similar as far as driving dynamics go.       

I don't know if it's been mentioned already but what was the point of letting the engineers compete directly with the Corvette engineers performance wise if only to E36 M3 can the whole thing later.

Now that has me thinking.  What about a mid-engined Camaro?  Could it be done and slot in below the C8? 

Because the internet plays a mean game of telephone...

https://youtu.be/a6gzCjYW0K8

NickD said:

Tom_Spangler said:

lnlogauge said:

In reply to 06HHR :

There is not a similar line or angle between those two cars. 

Agreed. Not seeing it at all.

Me neither.

Related but not related, I was driving home from work one day, tooling along on I-71 at 75mph (speed limit 60) and I saw something in my rearview coming up fast.  "Huh," thought I, "a base model Grand Am.  That guy has to be going flat out to be closing that fast."  Looked just like an ex-roommate's '96 2.4/5sp Grand Am.

Nope.  It was actually a BMW 128.

I guess that lawsuit BMW brought against Pontiac in the 80s actually had some merit, even though Pontiac was doing twin-kidney grilles since the 60s.

(okay they look different enough when looking at stock photos.... picture one in your rearview with a ~30mph speed differential)

xflowgolf said:

You know, with the whole current resurgence of the "Radwood" vibes and 80's/90's nostalgia... that age group of teenagers is now hitting their stride of career development and disposable income in their 30's/40's who might've rememberd the days of IROCs and "rollin in my 5.0" Mustangs but couldn't actually afford them at the time.  Using the 3rd gen influences could actually be reimagined in a very unique and fresh way relative to everything else on the road.  

GM styling in the 1960s was second to none IMO. The failure of the current Camaro for me started when it was introduced. Ford and the S197 Mustang nailed a  modern take on a classic. Dodge arguably did an even better job on the Challenger. Then the Camaro came out...and most people I talked to agreed with me that they missed the mark by a country mile. It...sorta looked like a 1969 Camaro. If you squint real hard. And have had a few shots of tequila. GM totally blew their retro entry. Didn't matter how good the underpinnings were, the styling wasn't good enough to suck in the nostalgic guys my age and it was an ergonomic disaster for anyone wanting a modern car with retro styling.

I'm not much of a GM fan but really wanted the Camaro to be better and battle Ford and ChryCo on equal footing. IMO the Camaro never had a chance on styling alone.

Wait...  The Gen 5 Camaro was supposed to be a retro look?  If so, it was so far off that I never picked up on that. 

06HHR said:

In reply to NickD :

Maybe if you squint real hard?  That's what I get for posting while day-drinking...   Well, let's say the car gets a reprieve, what direction should the designers go in for the next gen?  Something like the 2nd or 3rd gen? Or something more traditional (and easy to see out of) like the old 130R concept 

Or swoopy like the 140S concept

 

Itd be cool if they did a 1 series competitor like that top (red) thing with an ls and a manual. Especially if it had a zl1/1le version that had a blower. 

no love for the concept of a mid-engined Camaro for the junior manager? 

Just don't make it like that Euro-trashy 140S concept.  'Moderns' like the vehicle they drive to a tough mudder event to have  'I'm a lawyer get the berkeley off my highway' 'tude.

Someone needs to photoshop it.