81 Alfa Spider with 3TC and T50. Why does something inside my head really want this?

Am I just crazy?

Always loved the old Spiders, always been scared of the drivetrain. Is this the answer?

http://washingtondc.craigslist.org/nva/cto/4607816223.html

I would say that if the body work was done even half way decently that yes it is probably worth it. The install looks a little ratty but nothing a bit of creative interior work couldn't fix.

yeah, the shift console is lame, but nothing that couldn't be fixed.

times like this I wish I didn't have this stripped e21 in my garage that I'm bored of and don't want to work on.......

Looks like a ratty specimen. Front looks wavy and rear bumper is somehow split.

The 3tc is a great little motor but you'll wan tot stock up on starters. Got no idea about alfas....

As a shell, it looks ok to re-fit a proper engine. Not sure why that engine would be anywhere near as good as the original.

I've got an engine project if you get this car- all ready taken apart to modify with great parts.

What is a 3tc motor? What makes it better than the Alfa motor?

3tc is early 80's Toyota, hemi head and the engine that defined Toyota as reliable. Perfect drive train for anything under 2500#.

In reply to alfadriver:

I would guess that the original motor puked parts everywhere and this was laying around. It won't make any more power in stock trim but it also won't decide that the coolant and oil belong in the same part of the engine (this is not a fictional scenario).

Wow. That is an interesting combination.

You know what the 3tc really loves?

Boost. In large quantities.

singleslammer wrote: In reply to alfadriver: I would guess that the original motor puked parts everywhere and this was laying around. It won't make any more power in stock trim but it also won't decide that the coolant and oil belong in the same part of the engine (this is not a fictional scenario).

Perhaps not a fictional scenario, but also not all that common, either. I've had my GTV for close to 20 years, beating the powertrain on all sorts of tracks and parking lots. It has yet to blow a head gasket.

And I'm 100% confident that it makes a whole lot more power than a 80's Toyota motor does. And can make more, modified, than the same engine.

They take boost quite well- my friend made ~400hp on a Alfa motor. A Spider did 200mph with that motor.

I guess if all you want to do is commute to a place and back, well, yea, the heart of an Alfa can be swapped like that. But if you are going to do all that work.....

I'm not being a purist, but more confused why THAT swap. V8, and some v6's- sure. A very limited number of I4's make sense. Unless the goal is to make less power, and weigh more, I guess.

That all said... there's 1000hp 3TCs out there, and that motor enjoys an aftermarket and parts source that the Alfa can only dream of.

Do i find it a strange swap? Yes. Especially in the current form.

3T-C is California motor with 70hp?!

I have had a few cars with 3T motors, they were slow and harsh things. Yes, they're amazingly reliable, but nothing about them would seem in character for an Alfa. (Maybe including the reliability. ;-)

Swank Force One wrote: That all said... there's 1000hp 3TCs out there, and that motor enjoys an aftermarket and parts source that the Alfa can only dream of.

If you say so. Hard to belive, since I've never even heard of the motor in the first place. Let alone who makes it.

Has anyone used one of these motors for a Challenge car?

(I know a boosted Alfa did the challenge, and finished in the top 10 all 3 times it was there)

On a different angle, if the motor is that good, the Spider isn't that great. It's good, and can be really good. With a lot of work, it will almost be a Miata. Heck of a lot of fun to drive fast, but I'm not delusional to think it's a great chassis.

In reply to alfadriver:

That's because you're not a drag racer in Puerto Rico I too immediately thought of fire breathing turbo monsters when I read "3tc"

In reply to NONACK:

All I've ever seen from Puerto Rico around here at the strip is rotaries puking their guts out in some tiny 70s compact.

In reply to NONACK:

When I've gone down there, I've not noticed them that much either. Early 80's cars that still run, sure. But not fire breathing monsters.

If I were going to leave a car down there (and I have considered it), it would be an Alfa.

alfadriver wrote:

Swank Force One wrote: That all said... there's 1000hp 3TCs out there, and that motor enjoys an aftermarket and parts source that the Alfa can only dream of.

If you say so. Hard to belive, since I've never even heard of the motor in the first place. Let alone who makes it. Has anyone used one of these motors for a Challenge car? (I know a boosted Alfa did the challenge, and finished in the top 10 all 3 times it was there) On a different angle, if the motor is that good, the Spider isn't that great. It's good, and can be really good. With a lot of work, it will almost be a Miata. Heck of a lot of fun to drive fast, but I'm not delusional to think it's a great chassis.

I'm sure a 3TC has been at the Challenge at one point or another. And you know as well as i do that motor is only one small part of a top 10 finisher.

My motor in my challenge car almost certainly makes a crapton more power than that Alfa motor you reference, and the car did pretty terribly.

If you hadn't heard of the motor in the first place, then it's not surprising that you'd poo-poo it.

3TC-powered stock-ish chassis cars have gone 180mph+. In the standing quarter mile.

Here's 1200rwhp: http://youtu.be/J-CPEizxDdc

This all said... i don't see the point in this whatsoever unless it was to boost it in the future. I don't think these motors make much power n/a, though i'd love to try some day.

In reply to alfadriver:

I think they're busy racing the self-destructing rotaries Grizz mentions. All I know is what I've seen on youtube

that is just it.. unless you want to cram a metric tonne of air into the engine (and fuel) the 3TC is a terrible choice for an Alfa. I personally would want the 3.0 from the Milano in there.

As far as the reliability of Alfa engines.. usually the chassis and body rots away to nothing before anything terrible goes wrong with the engine.. which is not saying too much as we all know how Italian tin is so adored by the worm

In reply to Swank Force One:

For the GRM car, I don't know how much power we made, and the fastest 1/4 was only 14.12. If I actually spent time tuning it better, don't know.

Still, did get a pretty good autocross with one- good that the engine is so light.

Guess I don't get out much, since the motor is a mystery to me.

Maybe I consider it to be a rough equivallent to the same era escort motor, which was also a Hemi. And knowing some of the people who did that motor, it was actually heavliy influenced by the Alfa motor. In development. That got lost in production translation...

In reply to NONACK:

I don't know what it is. They show up here, they have Jersey plates, something cool like a Starlet or a Colt or an old RX rolls out of the trailer, there's a ton of WOP WOP WOP WOP WOP, they run four times and that's it because something broke or the engine popped.

As much of a Toyota guy as I am... I'm not sure I'd swap a 3 TC into an Alfa........ not even with boost... it doesn't sound right...

Now a 4AG, or 7AG and you have the right sound, and more power potential boosted, or n/a

As far as mass, 4AG long block is about 200#

So I don't get out much- did a google video search on the 3TC. Wow.

Not sure what they are capable of NA, but boost it, good lord.