81 Alfa Spider with 3TC and T50. Why does something inside my head really want this?

N/A the "TC" versions aren't all that exciting... although some "T" engine are better than others.... TG... or TGTE

(Toyota "T" engines also came as DOHC )

4TGTE Twin plug(yes 8 spark plugs) - typical build - 325hp, 8000 rpm

In reply to oldeskewltoy:

Twin plug sounds cool- good of them to copy, Alfa was doing that back in the 60's in the GTA's 1600 and the GTA Jr 1300 engines. The NOVA motor formula engines were also TS motors.

As CM's recent issue pointed out, the Alfa twin cam started in 1954, and ran into the mid 90's in the 155 and 164 sedans.

In otherwords, BTDT

this is the later GTAm engine from the late 60/early70's- 1900cc, twin plug, lucas fuel injection.

I had several 2tc and 3tc corollas and was only ever disappointed by the awful 80's Toyota automatics. Those engines with the 5-speeds they came with were fantastic, and all you ever had to do to the motor was plug wires every 45k or so. If I could buy a brand new 1980 Corolla wagon for what the new ones sell for I would buy 3.

And it wouldn't matter if Alfa had 100mpg, 1000hp rocket cars in 1922 if no one has ever seen one driving down the road.

oldopelguy wrote: And it wouldn't matter if Alfa had 100mpg, 1000hp rocket cars in 1922 if no one has ever seen one driving down the road.

huh?

So if nobody sees me drive my GTV, it doesn't count? Who do I have to show it to, then?

As I see it, Toyota pretty much copied with Alfa did, which is fine. Nothing wrong with that. No reason to bash Alfas, as well. Just be aware that one trying to impress an Alfisti with tech must realize that Alfa did a lot of firsts.

So...

(and Alfas got the 5 speed back in the 60's, too)

Do you have a source that supports your idea that Toyota copied Alfa? That's a pretty bold statement.

Swank Force One wrote: Do you have a source that supports your idea that Toyota copied Alfa? That's a pretty bold statement.

Of course not- that's silly. But there are a lot of details that are remarkably similar. Which is just fine- everyone copies everyone else.

Toyota spent a lot of time figuring how to make good cars- in that process, they take good ideas from other companies- big deal.

My point is not to pretend that this engine has any ground breaking ideas in it- the Alfa engine had them before it. Back in 1954 when the classic twin cam first came into production. And all the other tech that gives Toyota points were seen in Alfas 15 years prior- twin spark, 5 speeds, etc. When did the Toyota engine finaly get fuel injection? 1969 Mechanically, 1982 EFI for the Alfa. When did VCT come into the Yota? 1982 for the Alfa.

It's a very good engine, sure. I'm in with that. But I'll keep pointing out the things that make it good were on the Alfa motor that was taken from the car.

Ooops. Post edited - I see Alfa already answered this.

EFI hit Toyota in 1980(?) with the 4ME - Supra/Cresssida power plant. It followed to the MR2/AE86(84) for the 1st 4 cyl production use.

edited...

wiki said: In Japan, the Toyota Celica used electronic, multi-port fuel injection in the optional 18R-E engine in January 1974.[19] Nissan offered electronic, multi-port fuel injection in 1975 with the Bosch L-Jetronic system used in the Nissan L28E engine and installed in the Nissan Fairlady Z, Nissan Cedric, and the Nissan Gloria. Nissan also installed multi-point fuel injection in the Nissan Y44 V8 engine in the Nissan President. Toyota soon followed with the same technology in 1978 on the 4M-E engine installed in the Toyota Crown, the Toyota Supra, and the Toyota Mark II. In the 1980s

Concerning Spica mechanical fuel injection... do you really want to use that as engineering superiority???

Toyota(Yamaha) are known to follow in others footsteps... the 4AG engines are Ford BDA based, but far simpler. What Toyota, and a few other Jap manufacturers do is IMPROVE on design... The 4AGE is a great example... With proper maintenance 4AGE engines have easily logged over 200k miles without major repairs.

My first car was a 1980 corolla with the hemi headed 3T-C engine. 5 speed and liftback. Stock it put down a very underwhelming 75 hp. The last summer I owned it it got shocks, springs, bars for handling and a webber 2bbl carb, header no cat open exhaust system for power and I auto crossed it on cape cod.

Still not crazy off the line but certainly enough to step out ahead of traffic and the engine just kept building well past redline.

I don't know what the top end was but I saw 500 rpm into redline in 5th gear once.

I'd love to find one just like it today but I doubt many survived this long.

I'm actually a fan of Toyota and Alfa, but I don't like the idea if that engine in that car. It seems to be taking one of the better features out of the Alfa and replacing it with something that is not neccisarily better. If I remember correctly the 3TC's were kind of torqey for a small motor, which the Alfa's never were, but you just don't get that beautiful noise that the Alfa makes and those cars moved along pretty good without a whole lot of torque. If it had been a 4AGE (any of the varieties), I could ALMOST understand because the 4AGE is similar, but arguably more reliable/maintainable/cheaper by the average mechanic. But hey, it's his/her car, so not for me to understand.

Why's there a SPICA box in that shot that you say has Lucas injection?