94 voyager - make it handle

94 Plymouth Voyager: roughly ninety-nine thousand miles. Nearly all original but appropriately worn. Shocks recently replaced with OE type shocks. I do not envisage autocrossing the car but it doesn't handle; it is very sloppy verging on dangerous; turning the steering wheel back and forth a small amount nearly puts it out of control with the rear end seeming to take over - as in the tail wagging the dog. Any suggestions? Prefer non-exotic pieces. We had a '92 that had the same characteristics. Thank you.

this is a question for Fit_is_Slo, he knows those like the back of his hand...

When I was using a 95 Grand Caravan AWD 3.8 for courier work, I bolted a set of JC Witless "helper springs" onto the rear leaf springs. I did it because of the loads I sometimes carried, but it had the nice side effect of stiffening up the handling in the rear, too. That van also had the multileaf rear springs rather than the far more common monoleaf - towing package feature, maybe? Anyway, the helper springs and/or scoring some multileaf springs from a junkyard van may help at lot.

Johnny at Poly Bushings might be able to help:

http://www.polybushings.com/

You could get a front sway bar from a larger, more optioned version of your van. For the rear, Johnny might have one since the rear ends are pretty simple.

Springs and shocks are more difficult, but try the sway bars first along with decent tires and wheels (meaning plus one or plus two)

I'd be careful about going way stiff in the rear. What you describe as 'the rear taking over' sounds like oversteer or 'loose'. The best ways to correct that is to either lessen the rear roll stiffness (not recommended) or increase the front roll stiffness (better). For that reason I second the bigger junkyard sway bar with urethane frame bushings. Urethane control arm bushings will be a big help too.

Junkyard wheel/tire plus sizing will help, too. IIRC those used 70 series tires, if you can get to a wider 60 series that should help a lot.

Tire Rack has a few wheels that fit it, 17" for ~$100, one of them was listed at just a bit over 20 lbs. That's a +1 step over the optional 16" wheel for that vehicle, and BF Goodrich Traction TA's are also available for about $100 each. Might go miles towards taking some of the sway out.

Tire Rack also shows Koni shocks & cartridges, all 4 corners would be a bit over $400. I believe they were adjustable, at least at the rear. Rebushing everything else under the van plus these changes and I would like to think you would see massive improvements. Plus with a 55 series tire on 17's the ride shouldn't become too punishing.

Are all the springs in decent shape? I don't know if I'd throw lowering springs under it, Eibach has some apparently, but if there's a broken spring under there I think the handling would be affected pretty badly.

minivanman wrote: 94 Plymouth Voyager: roughly ninety-nine thousand miles. Nearly all original but appropriately worn. Shocks recently replaced with OE type shocks. I do not envisage autocrossing the car but it doesn't handle; it is very sloppy verging on dangerous; turning the steering wheel back and forth a small amount nearly puts it out of control with the rear end seeming to take over - as in the tail wagging the dog. Any suggestions? Prefer non-exotic pieces. We had a '92 that had the same characteristics. Thank you.

I would be careful about improving handling on a road "van." These van's WILL oversteer if you get into some type of highway speed emergency lane change maneuver. (probably what you are describing) I can only imagine improving handling "feel" will make this worse. We had a grand sliding sideways when some idiot pulled out without looking. Very scary.

Larger front sway bars were on the Grand van's with a towing package. As far as replacing the "K frame" sway bar bracket bushings, good luck. You will most likely break the bolts off unless you live in a rust free climate. If you can get those bracket bolts off you should be ok for a larger bar and stiffer bushings.

I wouldn't stiffen the rear AT ALL. Make sure no one installed an aftermarket rear sway bar. There should not be one there.

There should be a rear brake proportioning valve. This changes the F to R brake ratio depending on the load you are carrying. It is connected to the left rear leaf spring. If this is not working properly or binding it could cause tank slappers if your touching the brakes. I would also suspect worn broken or missing bushings in the front suspension and steering rack.

If you don't want to rebuild the suspension and stop swerving back and forth at higher speeds I would suggest trading up on a 96+ caravan, they got a suspension re-design with a AL k-frame and other fancy things. Your '94 suspension in simple terms is a scaled up k-car suspension without the twist beam rear. They sure do ride nice when going straight however....

Thanks for the suggestions. We'll see what we can do...

trade it in for a miata. Cant believe that I was the only one that thought of that

Opus wrote: trade it in for a miata. Cant believe that I was the only one that thought of that

LOL

We had a 95ish grand caravan, it handled sweepers pretty well. I would honestly go with 17in wheels good rubber a suspension refresh and if you can find a bigger front bar go with it. my.02 it's all been said, but I had to add it. I've seriously considered finding one for cheap for animal transportation and road trips, they ride nice and get decent mileage. Not to mention you have space for you to take naps while you swap off driving duties.

My dad used one as a company car / motorcycle tow vehicle / camper for a while in the late 80s. they can be good. No idea how to make them handle though.

my 1999 had eibach lowering springs (1.5" in front, 2" in back), koni adjustables, ground control rear bar, front bar from a Jeep Cherokee and it handled VERY well. Placed respectable in the 1 lap of america and turned heads at a few auto-X's. BTW, it also had swapped in 4-wheel discs (not available on SWB versions) ported, polished and match-ported heads with 3-angle valve job, ported TB and 2.5" exhaust all the way back. With the LSD it would lay two long black patches and keep up with an SN95 4.6L mustang all day long. god I loved that van.

Go to the local car yard and find some lowered Z06 springs that are attached to a Z06, purchase the entire car and enjoy your handling improvements

DrBoost wrote: my 1999 had eibach lowering springs (1.5" in front, 2" in back), koni adjustables, ground control rear bar, front bar from a Jeep Cherokee and it handled VERY well. Placed respectable in the 1 lap of america and turned heads at a few auto-X's. BTW, it also had swapped in 4-wheel discs (not available on SWB versions) ported, polished and match-ported heads with 3-angle valve job, ported TB and 2.5" exhaust all the way back. With the LSD it would lay two long black patches and keep up with an SN95 4.6L mustang all day long. god I loved that van.

Pictures and video please?

DrBoost wrote: my 1999 had eibach lowering springs (1.5" in front, 2" in back), koni adjustables, ground control rear bar, front bar from a Jeep Cherokee and it handled VERY well. Placed respectable in the 1 lap of america and turned heads at a few auto-X's. BTW, it also had swapped in 4-wheel discs (not available on SWB versions) ported, polished and match-ported heads with 3-angle valve job, ported TB and 2.5" exhaust all the way back. With the LSD it would lay two long black patches and keep up with an SN95 4.6L mustang all day long. god I loved that van.

This did strange things to me. I was repulsed yet excited at the same time. It was much like visiting 4chan for the first time, without the weird memes i did not understand.

MiatarPowar wrote:

DrBoost wrote: my 1999 had eibach lowering springs (1.5" in front, 2" in back), koni adjustables, ground control rear bar, front bar from a Jeep Cherokee and it handled VERY well. Placed respectable in the 1 lap of america and turned heads at a few auto-X's. BTW, it also had swapped in 4-wheel discs (not available on SWB versions) ported, polished and match-ported heads with 3-angle valve job, ported TB and 2.5" exhaust all the way back. With the LSD it would lay two long black patches and keep up with an SN95 4.6L mustang all day long. god I loved that van.

Pictures and video please?

I don't have any pics that survived my last camera, but I'll dig up the GRM issue with the 1 lap coverage. There is a little pic or two of it there and a little blurb. It was white with silver racing stripes on it. White 17" 5 spoke wheels. Ok yeah, that was with the swapped in 3.8L, the 3.8L wasn't available in the SWB vans.