jwc38
New Reader
4/7/09 11:35 a.m.
OK folks, Ive asked around about this and as with most things, GRM is my best option for a 'sanity' check.
As some of you (jim) may already know, I am currently knee deep in a 944 LS1 swap, Things have been coming along great, Im just about finished the front suspension (then its on to electrics and exhaust).
To mount the motor It is nescessary (on most of these swaps) to add some spacers to the cross member and A arms. This means that in order to get back my suspension geometry I have to run some long pinned ball joints.
this all then introduces and issue with Bump steer. Kits for porsches (cant find any for the 944 specifically) are like 300+ bucks!
So Ive devised my own bump steer kit. After buying tons of the wrong hardware My final design is as follows:
The Tie rod end is a 1/2" heim joint, drilled out the 1/2" threads and re-tapped to 14mm x 1.5
Through the spindle and tie rod end Im going to run a 1/2" bolt with a former crossmember washer (used thinner washers on the xmember to get more threads to grip) as a safety washer. Smaller spacing washers will allow me to space that whole thing down.
Now, In order to put this 1/2" bolt through the spindle I have to drill out the taper. On doing this I discover that the bottom of the taper is slightly more than 1/2"... whoops.
To build up material at the bottom of the taper Ive welded a few beads around the bottom ID, the spindle was hot to the touch but not smoking hot or anything. I then re-drilled out the hole to 1/2".. now the whole bolt wobbles in the hole not just the bottom end lol.
Here is the part where Im looking for a sanity check:
To elimanate that wobble I am considering using Labmetal (wrap the bolt in some scotch tape and then fill the extra space with lab metal, let dry and grind it flat on the top and bottom).
What do you guys think of this? will it fly?
I dont have any good pictures of this yet, Ill run home tonight and snap a couple shots to illustrate what I'm talking about.
This is all I can do for pics atm:
Well, a couple of things:
1) Metric rod ends and hardware would have made much more sense. Not hard to find if you search the internets.
2) Depending on the travel, you may need to invest in high-misalignment rod ends. If you push those rod ends past their limits, they'll fail, spectacularly.
3) Since the 944 is a grown-up 924, here is some info from those folks 924 Message Board & 924 Tech Section
jwc38
New Reader
4/7/09 12:02 p.m.
The metric 14mm x 1.5 rod ends are insanely expensive. I actually did try the 924 method but it was too much travel, Im only interested in spacing down about 1/4" (possibly a bit more) here.
Oh, I know they aren't cheap. I'm just concerned about your safety is all.
The 924 and 944 use different racks and crossmembers so it wouldn't surprise me that the measurements wouldn't work. I was merely giving you information that your method ought to work fairly well.
I don't know about "labmetal" but I think you'd better off stepping up a size in rod end and having the hole properly bored out using a milling machine and boring bar. If someone else states that "labmetal" will work, then the milling machine/boring bar solution is still the best bet to get the proper fit.
Aurora makes excellent metric rod ends, reducers are available as well if you need to use a smaller diameter bolt.
Can you weld on the spindle? If you are forced to use a longer bolt - I'd be tempted to put it in double shear and use different length spacers above/below the rod end to adjust bump.
WOH......
Get a tapered stud made to fit the spindle. Then one the bottom add and remove spacers to adjust the height.
This is no place for epoxy!
If you can't get a stud made buy a common stud and ream the spindel arm.
search under monoball pins will yeld more tapers
Personaly i hate heims in steering there just to wimpy for the oh crap factory when you bump someone
44.
Ah, didn't know those existed. Very nice products!
http://www.pitstopusa.com/detail.aspx?ID=71416
Depending on which side of the taper you're on, something like this may or may not take care of your problem.
jwc38
New Reader
4/7/09 4:30 p.m.
yeah, those are pretty much my concerns, I actually already have hardware for 5/8" rod ends (as per the 924 instructions) Id just need to get spacers.
speedwaymotors also has a taper stud that are 1/2" with a taper to 5/8" that could work instead. It would mean Ill have to find a new drivers side spindle though since like the idiot I am, ive bought 2/3 of the hardware Ill need for each style conversion and destroyed one spindle in the process.
during my time after lunch (when everything automotive is locked at work) I looked around for another one, these things are rough to find ( anybody got a drivers side 87 or 88 944 turbo S spindles....)
Ive also got the old spindles and tie rod ends from the 84 944 I started with, I could swap the longer tie rods that came with the 87 suspension stuffs for the shorter early rods.
I may have to shorten the 6" thread adapters (which I have already made minus one threaded part) store bought reducers sound very nice though since my fabbing skills may not be 100% trust worthy.
what are the sizes on that pit stop pin?
An M14 Rod end will help you out in 2 places. First, it will actually fit. Second, The 14mm bolt on the Spindle side will allow you to better eliminate the taper.
Also - regardless of what you do - no, lab metal in the steering system isn't OK.
Half assing the "go" is OK. Half assing the "stop" or the "turn" has much worse consequences.
jwc38
New Reader
4/7/09 4:34 p.m.
The mode of failure for the labmetal would be a mm or so wiggle in the bolt for the rod end, I know there are a lot of very bad situations out there but the compressive strength of that stuff is like 200k lbs.
I probably wont use it though.
Ill just save it for when I start powder coating stuff again
Not sure where you're at on this yet, but:
http://www.elephantracing.com/suspension/bumpsteer/944bumpsteer.htm
Sorry dude.