96-99 M3 + STU, does it stand a chance?

Once I get the new S52 in the E30 (the current one popped the headgasket), I'm going to put it up for sale and look for something a little newer.

I'd like to base my purchase around making a competitive ST- class car, sorry can't remember all the designations now. The only class I don't care about is ST, or Spec Civic.

If you were going to build a competitive street tire class car, which class (again ignore Spec Civic), which car for which class would you pick.

An E36 M3 doesn't stand a chance against the AWD boys in STU does it?

In reply to z31maniac: An E36 328 won STX this year.

But STX is way different than STU. Most serious e36 M3 drivers have backed out of the class.

http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum/showthread.php?t=751063&highlight=stu+m3+compete

Locally, probably a great car with lots of winning potential, but nationally, it's hard to beat the boost buggies.

A 328 for STX would be a very competitive car at all levels, and you can always head off to DSP later.

I've competed in STU in the Washington DC region SCCA for 2 seasons with a 1998 e36 M3 prepared to close to STU class limits. I'm running AST 4100 coilovers w/ 525#F-625#R rates, Vorshlag camber plates, Mason upper brace, 32mm H&R front swaybar, 20mm rear both w/ adj. endlinks. It's got a Conforti intake and software and a UUC/Corsa exhaust. All the bushings are new OEM or Powerflex. As I've refused to do anything irreversable to the body I have not rolled the fenders; as a result the biggest rubber I can fit is Dunlop Direzza Star Spec Z1s in 245/40/17 on 8.5" Kosei K1s.

The car handles very, very well. It's neutral (albeit slightly slow steering as all e36s which a Z3 steering rack fixes but which bumps you to BSP or SM) but it's down on tires, driven wheels, and HP to the rest of the class.

The STU field in my region is 85% STis and Evos, a couple e36 M3s, some e46 M3s, and e92 M3s. A hotshoe driver codrove my old dog to 3rd place a while back, but if I get it perfect the best I can manage is about 6% off of FTD.

Great car, but it's bringing a spork to a gunfight.

I guess the point I was trying to make was that the E36 328 would be my choice and build it for STX. It is cheaper and more readily available than the M3 and can actually compete. I would think an OBD-1 E36 325 would work also.

What about the new STR proposed class? Miata? Any particular year?

Does an E46 330 have a chance in STX?

If you're not in a boost buggy, you aren't going to be competitive...

We beat the boost buggies regionally with a near-stock GTO in STU. 400HP/400TQ out of the box is hard to beat. I don't see why an M3 wouldn't be at least locally competitive.

I'd take a look at STR as well. Maybe a Z3/Z4 could float your BMW needs and still kick some butt?

M3 could be competitive locally depending on the competition, but nationally will get it's butt kicked.

There's not a lot you can do - assuming perfect driving for everyone in the equation - to make up 100 HP and 2 more driven wheels. And if it rains? Ha! I can usually get within maybe 5% of the fast Evo-STi guys who are do well at nationals, but some of that is car. Checking results, on days when I'd finished mid field in STU I'd have trophied in BSP. And that doesn't take into account the difference that a nice set of Kumho 710s or Hoosier A6s would make.

The SCCA has allowed 2WD STU cars to run 285s, and if you're willing to really aggressively "roll" your fenders (to where the car looks like it's got box flares on the inside trying to get out) you can ~just~ squeeze 275s on.

If you want to play at BMWs in STU, get an e46 M3 and have 300hp and 285s. That's the ticket.

I don't necessarily need a BMW, but do have an affinty for them. Ideas for the other ST classes are welcome as well.

Any thoughts on the E46 330 in STX?

STX around here is BUSY! There's lots of WRX's and SRT4's, and quite a few Mazdaspeed Protege's. I don't know if a 330 would do it in our Region.

I'd still look at STR. You get all of the goodies, and there's no telling what the "dominant" car will be since it's brand new. I think the generous tire allowances and aftermarket LSD's will bring a lot of previously uncompetitive cars out of the woodwork to give the regulars (MX5/S2000) a run for their money. I'm still debating on trying it or not with the RX-7.

motomoron wrote: If you want to play at BMWs in STU, get an e46 M3 and have 300hp and 285s. That's the ticket.

Hmmm, I just checked. For some reason I was thinking the E46 M3 was banned from STU, but just appears STX.

Although, an E46 M3 + build would be out of my price range.

Trying to find a nice 328 for STX may be my best bet (as they are proven and affordable). Especially since it was pointed out that if I ever want to start spending stupid amounts of money on tires, I could go to DSP.

So it appears as though the ST classes break down this way.

ST = Spec '89 Civic Si STS = CRX Si (a well driven/prepped Miata maybe?) STX = 328/WRX STU = STi/EVO STR = ??????????

STR isn't replacing STS, correct? Maybe a Miata would be the best bet. But if so, NA or NB? NC + build again I think would be a bit out of my price range.

z31maniac wrote: STS = Spec '89 Civic Si STS2 = CRX Si (a well driven/prepped Miata maybe?) STX = 328/WRX STU = STi/EVO STR = ?????????? STR isn't replacing STS, correct? Maybe a Miata would be the best bet. But if so, NA or NB? NC + build again I think would be a bit out of my price range.

fixed the classing for ya. I think an S52 E30 could have a chance in SM.

Regionally maybe, but that'd be it. Plus, I want to play Ina street tire class for now so if I can develop the driving skill I could go to bigger events.

2002maniac wrote:

z31maniac wrote: STS = Spec '89 Civic Si STS2 = CRX Si (a well driven/prepped Miata maybe?) STX = 328/WRX STU = STi/EVO STR = ?????????? STR isn't replacing STS, correct? Maybe a Miata would be the best bet. But if so, NA or NB? NC + build again I think would be a bit out of my price range.

fixed the classing for ya. I think an S52 E30 could have a chance in SM.

No, you UNfixed it. STS became ST and STS2 became STS for the 09 Season. Also SM2 became SSM.

STR is an addition to, not a replacement of STS. A lot of the cars legal for STR are not legal for STS.

I guess I need to go search sccaforums and look for some STR threads. So the cars that are allowed for STR are to the STX rules?

If I was forced to drive one car every day plus autocross it every Sunday, I don't think I could beat an STX 328i. All the competitive Stock class cars are either impractical as an only car, too underpowered to be satisfying on the street, or too softly sprung to be enjoyable at an autocross. An STX 328 would be pretty awesome at everything, as long as you don't mind buying a $2k custom diff as part of the price of entry for the class.

P71 wrote: No, you UNfixed it. STS became ST and STS2 became STS for the 09 Season. Also SM2 became SSM.

oops!

goes to show how much I pay attention.

z31maniac wrote: STR isn't replacing STS, correct? Maybe a Miata would be the best bet. But if so, NA or NB? NC + build again I think would be a bit out of my price range.

correct. STR is a new class; it's not replacing anything. it has its own set of allowances, which are a blend of ST/S and STX (e.g., STX diff allowance but ST/S cat restictions).

also, keep in mind that STR is different from the other ST classes b/c it's not formula-based; the allowed cars are explicitly listed. if it's not on the list, it's not in the class (in this way it's just like every other non-ST autoX class).

the NC miata will likely be a top car, but the NB should also be able to do well b/c of its weight advantage. either the '99 (b/c of its low weight) or '01+ (b/c of the power potential of the VVT, esp if you get an '03 and convert it to Club Sport spec).

NAs just don't make enough power; if you're brave you can try a Torsen-equipped 1.8L, but the early NBs were actually lighter and more powerful than the later NAs.

another flyweight STR option is the MR2 Spyder.

Since I doubt I'll ever really become a top flight driver or try to win a jacket at Nationals, I may just go ahead and build an E36 M3 with ginormous rubber and call it a day.

I'm also going to have to live with the car on a daily basis, and I don't know if I want to DD a Miata.

At least I've got time to think about it!

Why isn't the later SS/SC Cobalt listed with the Mazdaspeed 3? IIRC every time they are put up side by side the Chebby comes out on top but no one ever takes them to the next level.

where did anyone mention a mazdaspeed 3 here?

edit: are you asking why the Cobalt is in STX and the MS3 is in STU? simple. the Cobalt is eligible for STX (2.0L engine); the MS3 is not (2.3L engine). it's not a slap at the Cobalt.

I just noticed that Yok makes the AD08 in 285/30/18. 18 x 10 + those on E36 M3 would just look the business.

Although I think it said they are $340 a tire!!!!!!