And the new Acura ADX will be out just in time for new tariffs! Timing is everything! (It's built in Mexico.)
And the new Acura ADX will be out just in time for new tariffs! Timing is everything! (It's built in Mexico.)
Mr_Asa said:As a result, anyone that claims to know what is going on (including me) is just blowing smoke.
Truth.
Atlanta Fed just revised their Q1 prediction from +2% annual GDP growth to -2.8.
Maybe we get higher prices because of tariffs, maybe we get cheaper prices because of recession, and small chance we somehow thread the needle and everything just kinda continues along the existing trajectory?
Noddaz said:And the new Acura ADX will be out just in time for new tariffs! Timing is everything! (It's built in Mexico.)
NAFTA helped move a lot of production to Mexico where the labor is cheaper.
On the other hand, some production also moved from Canada to the US because it's cheaper to heat a building in North Carolina than Ontario.
Peabody said:The used car market here is all over the place, and still hasn't recovered. I see a lot marked down, two to three times in many cases, indicating that they're not selling, yet others are still asking crazy high prices. And some things are just stupid. Spark prices are insane, and often two the three times what they would have been traditionally. Dealers are still asking over original MSRP on five year old Sparks. Tariffs. I wonder who's gonna get the worse end of that stick?
The consumer,thats who gets the dirty end of the stick....
E36 M3s about to get real and pricing is the least of our concerns most used cars are lasting substantially longer then before and are much more reliable people will be fine the actual banks financing the existing the current loans will be fine
unless the dealers and banks find a way to take the negative equity that is everywhere in the mostly all the tradins pricing will have zero effect because nobody is buying cars unless they have decent cash
In short the market is screwed up and people who should not spending money on new cars still are. People with used cars and good rates will be fine at least for transport.
In reply to wearymicrobe :
This in a way has been a trend for a long time, and I can't blame automakers for focusing on more and more expensive cars vs. low end loss leaders. Expensive vehicles will always sell, if you can accept higher profit margins for lower production rates.
Most compact cars were sold at a loss or razor thin margins, so dealers could advertise CARS STARTING AT $99/MONTH in the Sunday paper, to draw people to dealerships. I'm not sure that sales model is even relevant anymore with people searching on their smartphones before deciding on a purchase instead of walking through the door and having a salesman sell them on something.
So now instead of $12k loss leaders, the floor is $30k and they can make a profit on every one they make. And if you want or can only afford something cheaper, well... we have 84 month financing. Come on, it's only 20% interest. And this baby has Bluetooth headrests!
This has turned into quite an active topic. Uncertainty in the direction of this country and how this country treats the rest of the world does affect the economy, and there are so many things going on that are costing jobs and more of our income. The used car market has several categories, each responds differently. The low end, under 10K and maybe a super low below 5 are necessities. I think more people will be shopping here, I have 2 prius "gifts" from the kids to sell and the numbers look higher than they were a year ago. The 10K to 20K group is different, not sure what is happening because I never shopped there but we want a camry hybrid in this range so I am learning. Above 20K is going to get hit hard IMHO as a buy requires payments and that is a bad idea right now.
But the comment about too many variables is the truest one posted. This tariff on/off game combined with DOGE you're fired/ no we need you back stupidity has me scared. But I am loving the return on my gold coin investment from 10 years ago.
Pete. (l33t FS) said:In reply to wearymicrobe :
This in a way has been a trend for a long time, and I can't blame automakers for focusing on more and more expensive cars vs. low end loss leaders. Expensive vehicles will always sell, if you can accept higher profit margins for lower production rates.
Most compact cars were sold at a loss or razor thin margins, so dealers could advertise CARS STARTING AT $99/MONTH in the Sunday paper, to draw people to dealerships. I'm not sure that sales model is even relevant anymore with people searching on their smartphones before deciding on a purchase instead of walking through the door and having a salesman sell them on something.
So now instead of $12k loss leaders, the floor is $30k and they can make a profit on every one they make. And if you want or can only afford something cheaper, well... we have 84 month financing. Come on, it's only 20% interest. And this baby has Bluetooth headrests!
I'm wondering if auto makers will be forced to start making cheaper cars? The irresponsible people are either going to be locked up or defaulting. Responsible buyers aren't going to feed the higher end market that emerged even more through covid, especially at current rates. I'd put my money on manufacturer subsidized interest rates first. Most people seem to buy a payment. Cheap leases through bought down money factor and cheap long term loans will catch some people. Bringing in new models or trims will take a lot longer. Though TBH if I were in the market for a new car these days I'd probably lease a good rate and not buy with how much uncertainity there is on how ICE vs EV will shake out in the next 5ish years.
Pete. (l33t FS) said:In reply to wearymicrobe :
*SNIP*
So now instead of $12k loss leaders, the floor is $30k and they can make a profit on every one they make. And if you want or can only afford something cheaper, well... we have 84 month financing. Come on, it's only 20% interest. And this baby has Bluetooth headrests!
Unless you are "fill in blank of at least five brands". Ok, maybe they make money on every car they sell, but they are not selling many cars.
The dealer lots out here in the hinterlands of Canuckistan are crammed full of new vehicles. If they're sitting on inventory, prices might come down.
There's no cheap, entry level cars anymore because consumers don't want them.
Try selling cars without heated seats, air conditioning, great stereos, etc. Everyone wants everything in their POS econobox but they don't want to pay for it.
Build a $12,000 stripper Chevy Cruze and see how many warranty complaints come in about squeaks, rattles, and cheap plastic parts breaking. You bought the cheap hunk-o-junk, you deal with it. Then the dealer becomes the bad guy.
Same reason all the used lots are crammed full of garbage Dodge half-tons. Everyone buys one, gets tired of terrible quality and ditches it for a better truck.
Tom1200 said:In reply to stan :
Right now I'm seeing the opposite; I've been eyeballing 10-15 year old pick ups and I see dealers cutting prices.
I think the interest rates are hurting prices.
and people are over under on their car notes they got in 21-22 when prices were way too high.
Noddaz said:Pete. (l33t FS) said:In reply to wearymicrobe :
*SNIP*
So now instead of $12k loss leaders, the floor is $30k and they can make a profit on every one they make. And if you want or can only afford something cheaper, well... we have 84 month financing. Come on, it's only 20% interest. And this baby has Bluetooth headrests!
Unless you are "fill in blank of at least five brands". Ok, maybe they make money on every car they sell, but they are not selling many cars.
The thing that I heard is that Ford lost money on Escrots.
I remember when Fiestas and Focuses were sold concurrently. They cost almost the same and got almost the same fuel economy so a lot of people got Focuses. They couldn't sell the Fiestas any cheaper and they couldn't sell the Focuses any more expensive, aside from the performance models.
Those that think of today's interest rates as "high" need to take a longer view. I bought my first new car with the help of a 9.5% loan. My first mortgage was at 8.125%. Those are not historically high numbers. I don't believe loan rates are currently that high.
In reply to 1988RedT2 :
Agreed. Rates today are pretty normal... Just a lot higher than when they went crazy low.
15 years of absurdly low rates have made people think the rates now are high. The rates now historically would be considered normal and good.
As far as the used car market, I'm trying to sell my Touareg, have it listed for $13k. Have had a few nibbles, some people saying they're going to buy it and then backing out due to insurance costs, or just disappearing. So I wouldn't say the used car market is strong right now, even for a well priced, affordable, well maintained SUV.
In reply to docwyte :
You're trying to find someone with $13k cash that wants a 11 year old obscure car.
95% of the people with $13k cash, or the ability to get a loan on something that old, are not looking for a diesel vw.
If it was on a buy/here pay/here lot for $2k down, it would be gone, because they're only looking at the payments.
The used car market for vehicles that can be financed is strong, and cheaper cars is strong, you happen to be in the worse spot, for selling a car, too old, and not "cheap" (to most people)
Edit: on that note, might be worth seeing what Carvana/Carmax would pay, might be more than you'd think
It's more difficult to sell a vehicle over 10 or 11 years old because most financial institutions won't do auto loans for cars older than that, so you are looking at a personal loan (more interest, need better credit) OR someone who is at the intersection of having that much money just lying around and not caring what the neighbors think if they buy something that isn't a new Lexus.
Most people would need a loan to buy a $2000 car, having free liquid funds is pretty rare in the US.
For some reason I had the impression you could get a "decent" car for $3k from 1998 until about 2020. Maybe that's just my little lens, and obviously highly subjective, but that's amazing. It makes sense to me if that were no longer the case and that I would need to pay more like double that for a "decent" car. Housing has gone by 250% since the late 90s from some estimates. it would sort of seem weird if cars didn't.
docwyte said:15 years of absurdly low rates have made people think the rates now are high. The rates now historically would be considered normal and good.
most of us here have decent credit. 10%+ is the new normal for mid tier credit at least in my neck of the woods. Would be less of a problem if there was decent cars available in the 25k range that people actually want to own. I would love to see some cheaper cars launch. But it's the same work, or less, to sell a loaded f150 to a buyer then someone trying to get in the doors at 25l.
Funny thing I heard on the radio while driving today.
The Dodge dealer in B.C. who's slogan is "When even your mom won't lend you money" had an ad on the radio.
They were stating that they could get you into a new Fiat 500e for $50 Canuck bucks a week so you wouldn't have to put miles on that expensive truck lease.
Crazy that we're at that point. If you need a 2nd vehicle. Why not just buy a decent, used Camry and run it into the ground instead?
"Bad credit? No Credit? Owe more than you paid? We can get you into a new car today AND give you up to $10K cash back". Holy hell, I can just imagine the borderline-usury interest rates.
My crystal ball is cloudy about ordinary used cars.
But my sense is that a lot of folks are going to be hurting in the next few years and selling their toys. A person who is fortunate enough, has planned ahead well enough, to have ready cash in hand will probably be able to get some great deals. Sports cars, convertibles, motorcycles, boats... Things that folks don't need to get them to work, and can be sold when times are tough.
I didn't know high used car prices ever dropped.
In reply to CyberEric :
That is a 20+ year span, no a $3000 car in 2000 is not the same as a $3000 car in 2018. In that span I have bought several cars, all under $5K and most were pretty trouble free for a few years. They also got sold for about what I paid for them. Pretty lucky and some hard work on repairs. But what is out there for $3K now is just an excuse to spend a couple grand or get towed home once in a while.
ekauppi7 said:My crystal ball is cloudy about ordinary used cars.
But my sense is that a lot of folks are going to be hurting in the next few years and selling their toys. A person who is fortunate enough, has planned ahead well enough, to have ready cash in hand will probably be able to get some great deals. Sports cars, convertibles, motorcycles, boats... Things that folks don't need to get them to work, and can be sold when times are tough.
Depends on who has the toys. In the 2008 financial adjustment, the people who had toys kept our business afloat because when they weren't snapping up foreclosures for pennies on the dollar they were having us do 30-40k of work on their Chevelles.
stuart in mn said:I didn't know high used car prices ever dropped.
They did, for about a year, but it wasn't evenly distributed across price buckets. $35k+ units nosedived while cheaper inventory actually appreciated.
Barring a full blown recession (which is entirely possible), I suspect we'll see used car prices increase again. Quality used cars have dried up, lease returns are non-existent and will remain depressed through 2026, owners are keeping cars longer, which means most dealer trades aren't worth reconditioning, auction competition is so fierce that the overwhelming majority of dealers lose money on auction purchases.
Source: I do this for a living.
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