In reply to GTXVette : it’s a 90 degree V12, don’t expect smooth. Plus it’s Iron. You think an all aluminum Jaguar v 12 is heavy, wait until you put that on a scale.
Lottery goals.
Aluminum block is a $5,000 option
Somewhere out on the web there is a Wright up about these people. It was really cool. The thing that caught my attention was that they also made a “ls” V4 from the cut offs. I thought that was really cool.
Where's the other 3 camshafts?
"You will need custom headers."
No argument here.
I'd rather have a Cadillac V16.
Appleseed said:I'd rather have a Cadillac V16.
Now that makes sense as a 90 degree V.
frenchyd said:In reply to GTXVette : it’s a 90 degree V12, don’t expect smooth. Plus it’s Iron. You think an all aluminum Jaguar v 12 is heavy, wait until you put that on a scale.
I thought angle didn't matter on a V12, because it was just a pair of inherently-balanced inline 6s?
In reply to codrus :
Assuming the firing order on a bank is even, you are correct. Not sure what book Frenchy gets his info from.
A Falconer V12 will only set you back about $50,000...
alfadriver said:In reply to codrus :
Assuming the firing order on a bank is even, you are correct. Not sure what book Frenchy gets his info from.
Any 90 degree V 12 will have the second order harmonic.
That’s why all inline aircraft engines are or were a60 degree V 12
In reply to frenchyd :Reply
Based on what? You take an I6 that is balanced to the 5th or 6th order, add them together, and you won't suddenly get a second order out of it magically. At any angle.
60, 120, and 180 makes the crank a whole lot easier to make, as the two banks can share a common throw and have an engine that evenly fires. For 90, you need a split throw to do that for the whole engine to even fire. But as long as a single bank is even fire, the addition will have harmonics of the original, just in different planes.
BTW, the two statements in your post don't really go together. You don't choose V12 because of a theoretical harmonic for 90deg. You choose a V12 because if's smooth out to a high order, and you choose the angles based on a strong crank. And instead of "inline" I think the word you wanted was "water cooled", because V is not inline.
I would like to hear one of these in person
alfadriver said:In reply to frenchyd :Reply
Based on what? You take an I6 that is balanced to the 5th or 6th order, add them together, and you won't suddenly get a second order out of it magically. At any angle.
60, 120, and 180 makes the crank a whole lot easier to make, as the two banks can share a common throw and have an engine that evenly fires. For 90, you need a split throw to do that for the whole engine to even fire. But as long as a single bank is even fire, the addition will have harmonics of the original, just in different planes.
BTW, the two statements in your post don't really go together. You don't choose V12 because of a theoretical harmonic for 90deg. You choose a V12 because if's smooth out to a high order, and you choose the angles based on a strong crank. And instead of "inline" I think the word you wanted was "water cooled", because V is not inline.
Thank you I realize a V anything isn’t inline but when dealing with airplanes the rule seems to be round or inline.
Round engines are radial usually an odd number of cylinders. In line engines could be any combination but are usually V 12’s Packard alone made 70,000 of them for WW2 Then add German, British, Russian, and Italian. ( off the top of my head I think all Japanese aircraft engines of WW2 were radial, but I could be wrong)
In reply to frenchyd :
Japan did produce v12 engines based on the Daimler Benz design.
codrus said:frenchyd said:In reply to GTXVette : it’s a 90 degree V12, don’t expect smooth. Plus it’s Iron. You think an all aluminum Jaguar v 12 is heavy, wait until you put that on a scale.
I thought angle didn't matter on a V12, because it was just a pair of inherently-balanced inline 6s?
If an in-line six was perefectly balanced then Airplanes that use piston engines would all be six cylinders. Vibration of any order is extremely hard on an airplane and slow the plane down. Aircraft engines are rigidly mounted and transmit vibration. Since the ultimate in-line piston engines were all developed during WW2 and they are V12 that’s your answer.
Even the smoothness of. V12 was surpassed as turbine/ Jet engines came into useage.
Hahaha, not all inline aero engines are V12s.
KyAllroad (Jeremy) said:Lottery goals.
Definitely. No idea what I'd put it in, but after a million or so, who cares... Maybe something like a Hennessey Venom GT.
Appleseed said:Hahaha, not all inline aero engines are V12s.
Yes I know about Rangers and a few others but for performance, the V12 does seem to dominate.
Correct. V12s were pretty much the pinnicle of piston are engines because jet overtook the state of the art. Napier was working to perfect the Sabre, a 24 cylinder H engine. Chrysler had its V16. There were quite a few expremental engines in development, but after a certain point, there was simply diminishing returns. 3,000-4000hp takes a massive propeller to harness that, and at extreme RPM, the tips go supersonic.
Jets, even the limited early ones, were far easier to go faster.
V12s were also probably a good balance of displacement vs physical dimensions for making lots of power fit into the available space. An I6 would have needed bigger cylinders, making it longer (and if it's crossflow, not much narrower anyway).
Aircraft piston engines generally come in 3 types. Horizontal opposed, either 4 or 6 cylinder. Most common found in civil aviation light fixed wing airplanes. packaging and visibility reasons why this type is most common. V-type, generally V-12 for package and power reasons and some V-16's. Some of these are upside down with the cylinders pointing down, for packaging reason. Not very common as there were issues with liquid lock in the cylinders. Lowers the height above the block for pilot visibility. The third type is radial. Always odd number of cylinders per bank, generally 7 or 9 cylinders. If there is a second bank it will be offset to allow air-cooling flow. Generally doesn't go past 3 banks as past that is diminishing return on power. 2 and 3 bank radial engines are usually found on old large cargo transports and bombers. V-types and radials went by the wayside as jets and turbines became more efficient and reliable. Made more power in a smaller, easier to package assembly. Horizontal opposed is still around in civil aviation for cost reasons. Radials are seeing a small resurgence but usually in single bank for smaller airplanes. For years no one was making radial engines or parts. Can now get replacement engines and parts for the old larger airplanes that uses them.
Yep, and inline engines are terrible for aviation use because they're large and heavy for a relatively small amount of displacement. A V12 is far less than double the size of an inline six, but has double the cylinders and displacement.
Aero piston engines generally try to minimize the amount of crankcase and crankshaft required for the most displacement, because those are the heavy parts. Long inline and V engines are also poor choices if air cooled, so those are generally large, high performance water cooled engines.
Cool idea, and I'd like to hear one, but it's really not that hard to get that much power from a regular ls motor with boost. Or double that much power with an lsx block and boost.
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