ABS with aftermarket LSD or Lockers?

I tend to over think things. We're shopping for a 4x4 beater-ish SUV, specifically an XJ, even more specifically a '97-'00, 4 door, 4.0L, AW4, NP242, with ABS in white, so yeah easy to find.

SWMBO would drive it when she needed to pick up whatever "antique" furniture project she wants to drag home next, and would also be an inclement weather car.

I can't leave well enough alone, and know I'll start modding it, SWMBO already thinks it's going to need a winch. I love her!

We got stranded in the Jetta during this past Friday's bad weather, and had to hitch-hike. SWMBO decided to we should expedite the long discussed 4x4 we were going to get.

Her driving it, I want it to have ABS, but also got to thinking about an LSD in each end, Truetrac or the like. This will be a 90%+ pavement pounder, but with an emphasis on bad weather duties. The XJ could also potentially be used to occasionally, "dig skinny cows out of the mud, down there at the old ranch." <<< Robert Earl Keen Jr. reference.

So, not really right for a lunch-box locker or Detroit, not going to put a spool in it, considered selectable, ARB, Zip, Etec, Ox, etc. but if the axles are "locked," then the ABS won't sense any wheel slip on the same axle, and won't work properly. Am I right?

To get ABS on a late model XJ you're stuck with a D35 anyway, I've got a TJ with a D35 and a Lock Right in it, but it's really under powered with the 2.5L auto, and only has 32x11.50 tires on it.

The XJ would see 31-32" tires at the most, ~3" lift permitting, and a 4.0L on a D35 with over sized tires and a locker is asking for trouble in a lot of situations.

My thought is that the proper traction aid for this imaginary vehicle in this hypothetical situation is limited slip. Added traction with a still functional ABS. Am I over thinking this?

• Lee

A locker will probably confuse the ABS to the point of uselessness...limited slip would be the best choice to get more traction on the street without causing any handling quirks.

don't certain types of locker only lock in teh drive direction, and unlock in the coast (ie braking) direction?

I doubt that a LSD or Detroit style locker would have an negative effect

Thumbs up for the REK quote

bigdaddylee82 wrote: The XJ would see 31-32" tires at the most, ~3" lift permitting, and a 4.0L on a D35 with over sized tires and a locker is asking for trouble in a lot of situations.

I had a 5 speed Cherokee with 33's and a Dana 35 and beat it like it owed me money for 2 years. Never broke it. Do the limited slip, trac-loc (OEM) preferred if the Mrs. is going to be driving it. Typically lockers suck for significant others, and the type of driving you are suggesting does not warrant the harshness and lack of driveability that a locker gives. Plus a OEM clutch limited slip is cheaper!

The Lock Right in my TJ is just a spider gear replacement style locker, but the principles of the locking teeth are basically the same as those of the Detroit. No? The Lock Right disengages, ratchets, when one wheel is going faster than the other, or is supposed to, but it only does this when going around a corner, not in a straight line. I say it's supposed to, because mine doesn't always disengage, even when turning a corner. My TJ doesn't have ABS, so I had never considered the possible issue before.

I've never used a Detroit, does it possess some voodoo magic that allows it to disengage either side of the axle based on wheel speed alone, not only when cornering? How would that work? Seems that wouldn't be ideal for the majority of the off road applications I'm familiar with that use Detroit lockers.

• Lee

The simple act of locking two wheels together just makes the ABS's job easier. Get one wheel on ice, the other forces it to continue turning, so the ABS can stay asleep.

Don't buy the Jeep ABS that uses the pressure accumulator. They are failure prone, expensive, and parts for them are getting unicorney.

I remember reading up on companies installing LSDs on the BMW 335I and 135I. The Traction control -LOVED- it and worked in complete harmony with the limited slips. They simply allowed the ABS and TCS activate at a higher level rather than jumping to work at every perceived moment of slip. The systems were still there to save you, but it took more to activate them (when you really needed them)

In reply to airwerks:

The Trac-lok doesn't have the greatest reputation, and up until now I didn't know it was available on the D35. The Trac-lok would be better than nothing, but I still won't consider it a "must have" in my search parameters. Something more like the Detroit/Eaton Truetrac, Torsen-style LSD is what I had in mind. The fact that the Trac-lok was an option on the D35 hadn't crossed my mind until you mentioned it, I thought they were only available on the D44/C8.25 axles, but you got me to doing some more research, apparently they were an option on all axles and standard on the "UpCountry" packages. So Chrysler had ABS/LSD combos in OEM applications, see I knew I was over thinking this. Thanks for shining that little ray of light and pointing me into the right direction on the subject.

The short wheel base of my wrangler and the Lock Right can make it a little "twitchy" on slippery surfaces, wouldn't be as bad on the longer wheel base XJ, but still, I don't think a locker is proper for this application.

As for the D35, in a perfect world the stronger C8.25 or D44 would have come with ABS, I know most off-roaders disable it if they've got it, so discarding the D35 for a stronger axle with out ABS is usually a non-issue. Like I said, I've got a D35 on 32" tires and a locker in my wimpy Barbie Jeep, I have not been gentile to it, and I have never broken it. On the flip side, I have first hand witnessed them break on similarly equipped 4.0L Jeeps, I always attributed my 2.5L's dozen or so horse power to helping my D35 staying alive. Being behind a D35 equipped Jeep with ~35" tires on a trail, and seeing how much those axle tubes flex will make anyone nervous. Having said all that, I'm content that for this application, the D35 will be "good enough." Still there's that little voice in the back of my head from over a decade in the Jeep world yelling at me, "what are you doing?!?! You don't spend money on a D35, you replace it!" There's always machining a lip onto D44 or Ford 8.8 axle shafts and pressing on ABS tone rings, if the need ever actually did arise.

I'll shut up my ramblings now. Thanks for the info everyone!

• Lee

Just buy a Grand with Quadradrive. Way easier/ nicer and more power. The 4.7 isnt scary or any more of a pain than a 4.0, ride better, the diffs work stunningly well, and youll never reach the limits of the stock axles without cutting fenders. Mine was unstoppable, albeit i kept up on the maintenance.

Really, theyre 10000x better than XJ's. Ive owned/driven plenty.