Accessibility of Modern Racing - identifying emerging talent version

We've discussed how building a grassroots version of a top tier race car is very difficult. What if we applied the hive mind to identifying and bringing up top-tier talent? Discuss.

Imagine there's a young guy making the rounds of the various local autocross clubs in an underprepared car, driving it at the absolute ragged edge and beating more experienced drivers in better prepared cars. He possesses the kind of skill, sensitivity, and car control that would likely apply to road racing, but he doesn't even have the funds to put together a decent autocross car. A driver like this might get some national attention, but if he can't afford tires for his own car, he's probably not interested in paying for a ride at Nats. Any more expensive pursuits are off the table. At the local level, autocross/solo is the lowest barrier to entry into competitive motorsport. There's no ladder up, though.

In ball sports, our schools foot the bill for training and player development (while the band geeks busk for donations at the grocery store). If a player does well enough in high school sportsball, he might get a scholarship for free tuition and meals at a university, where he may then come to the attention of talent scouts looking to fill out a professional roster.

Nothing like this would be practical in motorsport, the costs are too great.

So, what could a group of enthusiasts do to identify and foster talent? Is a scholarship program or something similar feasible?

Racing is too fun to promote other people. I'd rather drive my own car mid pack than support someone else winning in it.
That's the fundamental problem.

Mazda has a scholarship program of sorts. Skip Barber too.

But, if you can't afford to race, you can't afford to race. You have to buy in to atleast that much of a commitment.

In motorsports the driver brings experience, cash and/or sponsors to the team and then he gets to test in the car. Only a very few who have proven they can win championships get a straight up paycheck. Everyone else pays to play.

The other issue is that our interests here aren't necessarily where the money is, at least in the USA. It seems like every little town out here has a dirt oval. Many of which have attached drag strips. Lets look at my very unpopulated state of South Dakota. A quick search finds me 11 active dirt/clay ovals and 4 drag strips, plus a pile of closed down facilities. This doesn't even include the kart ovals that feed into them. Not bad for the #46 state in population. Hell, my town of 105 people has an active chassis builder. Wyoming, smallest population in the Union, 6 ovals. One of my co-workers, her son is sponsored by Tony Stewart.

So you have a big network of oval tracks out there, and it's accessible. It's easy to get a couple buddies together on a Friday night to haul your car down to the track that's only a couple miles from home. Because this is happening in such large numbers across the country, you've got a LOT of companies supporting it. Just open your Jegs and Summit catalogs, and it's quick to see who they are focused toward. Because there's a lot of money in oval racing, there's a lot of money in promoting the racing and drivers.

Big road courses? Stage Rally? It's got a much smaller footprint and as a result not as much industry support, and especially important is that you don't have the fan base. So your races are more expensive and difficult to attend. Nobody is out there buying t-shirts. Many series are struggling just to exist and have no hope of thriving. Compared to NASCAR and NHRA, very few people follow Indy cars, and even less follow IMSA. So you're not going to get very much outside money coming in.

Want to help get talent better recognition? Get people to recognize the racing they're doing. Support your local NASA/SCCA/whatever chapter. Go to their events and tracks to keep them running. Help promote them, buy and wear their t-shirts. Drag along the local motorhead kid with the crappy Honda, show him what he can do with his car. Exposure Exposure Exposure. But always positive.

The drivers are the flower, the tracks and events are the roots. Grow the roots and the flowers will bloom. I mean, why do you think they chose the name "Grassroots Motorsports".

In reply to hhaase: yup

It all comes down to money. All the talent in the world won't get you a seat unless you have the money that goes with it.

It's a money sport. Plain and simple. My son just turned 15, so many of his friends have now moved from karts to cars. One is doing the Mazda Road to Indy (and leading the points), a few are in the Pirelli World Challenge, and two are in the NASCAR truck series. ALL of them are there because their parents were able to pay for it. Only one had the type of talent that would be considered an "up and comer" and his dad has shelled out a bunch of money.

Supposedly, it's better in Europe to find talent. As I've explained to many non-car friends, in the US there is a ladder system for basketball, football, baseball, etc. A talented middle schooler will be recruited by high schools, then by colleges and then by the pros. For all of those, the money made is enough to pay every player pretty well while also maintaining minor league team salaries.

In auto racing, that doesn't exist because auto racing is way too fractured. For NASCAR, would the driver come from karting, dirt, circle track? You might be able to equate dirt ovals to NASCAR, but what about Indy? Who races open wheel in an oval? More importantly, the money isn't there to defracture it and build a ladder system. Sure, there's a lot of money in NASCAR, somewhat less in Indy, but not nearly in the same league as the NFL or NBA or MLB. It would be generous to say that 20% of the drivers in professional racing in the U.S. are paid drivers. The rest are paying to be there, whether it's dad's deep pockets/contacts or bringing sponsors. There's just not enough made across the board to pay that many drivers to race.

And I don't think it'll change and will most likely get worse.

You could argue that the heyday of racing was the 60's, 70's and 80's. When we were much more car obsessed than we are now. Most cars were manuals, most people wrenched on their own cars and the biggest thing a 15-year old looked forward to was getting their license at 16. Today, manuals are hard to find, shadetree mechanics are rare, the biggest "features" of new cars are things like smart braking, self driving, infotainment and wifi capabilities. And most kids don't care to get a license any time soon.

Why would anyone care about racing cars? A computer could do it better.......

-Rob

There is a ladder in Indycar. It's Karting->School Series or F1600 or SCCA FF or now USF4->USF2000->Pro Mazda->Indy Lights->IndyCar. You can of course skip levels if you have the proper funding or take detours to Europe or sports cars or Semi-pro racing (such as the Formula Race Productions series)

They start exposing you to ovals at the USF2000 level. Each level above that includes more ovals. Indy Lights races at IMS.

Racing ovals in a non-aero car isn't very useful in transitioning to an aero car like an Indy Lights car or IndyCar, that's why lately short track drivers haven't found their way to Indy very often.

There is in fact a much more direct path in the US than there is in Europe, where there is still an alphabet soup of third and fourth tier series, none of which have a clear and direct path to GP2 or F1. Add in the fact that running GP2 costs about the same as what it costs to run IndyCar and a lot of disgruntled folks from the European "ladder" come to the Mazda Road to Indy.

The new USF2000 car designed by Tatuus costs $51,800 for a roller, which is really quite reasonable for the technology that's included and with that car you can put together a season in a real open-wheel pro series in front of actual fans at a number of iconic venues for a total season cost in the 5 figures, is pretty astonishing.

Big time pro racing, especially of the open wheel variety, is and always will be a rich mans game. But there is a path to the top that is at least accessible to a lot of people.

Getting back to our theoretical talented kid who can't afford to put together a decent autocross car. He just has to stick with it. He eventually will be a super talented autocrosser in his late 20's or early 30's who I'm pretty sure will be able to scrape together few hundred bucks it takes for a really good co-drive at nationals. Hell, with his experience he may not even have to pay.

Thanks for the responses, I now know a lot more about the business of motor racing.

johnnie wrote: Thanks for the responses, I now know a lot more about the business of motor racing.

Yep, and that's the key to it all. No matter what... It's a business. No 'professional' sport is immune to these issues.

I have a cousin who is a very talented equestrian BUT despite the fact that her parents could afford a horse (not cheap in NYC) they could not afford a really top tier horse. She now coaches young riders sound

I know of at least 4 people who have/had the talent to be competitive in top tier series but lacked the money. I'm sure everyone on here who races knows 3 or 4 people in the same spot.

So how does one pick which one of the 40 drivers in the U.S. who deserves a shot?

I used to wise crack that I only lacked three things to be 125 World Champion; Money, Dedication and Otherwordly Talent. So we pick a driver but then realize that they are terrible with sponsors and don't like to train all that much.

It really is more than just the finance, I recently saw a special on college athletes and the young man was talking about how much work he puts in and poeple don't realize it's that many hours. The guy was working hard without a doubt but I had to laugh because between work, exercising and the hours working on the cars I'm putting in nearly the same amount of time.

Tom

What Rob said is so true. The scary thing is that you look around most of the paddocks in the SCCA and the majority of the racers are 40+ Very few of the racers I work with on a regular basis are on the up and coming side. Most are the weekend warrior.

I had a great time working the Red Bull GRC event this weekend up in Dallas. I was talking to the dirt fish folks who sponsor one of the lights teams and I asked them where does one start with Rallycross in the US? Their answer.....Europe or you rally. Sad thing is the racing is a lot of fun and I would love to do some W2W rallycross like that but there isn't even a series out there to do that any more.

The Road to Indy is kind of a joke. If you look at most of the starters in the Indy 500, most didn't come that route. Also, with the way that the Indy series is going, is that really a route that most people would be interested in any more?

In reply to johnnie: Remember, before talking about paying anyone to race and run the event, running race cars is very costly, especially if there are multiple crashes. Running a NFL or NBA game is not nearly as costly to run. Occasionally, some people are given a seat to race with the pros, but of course, they usually are connected to the owner of the race team in one way or another.

Edit: Usually, that talented broke autocrosser would need to compete at Nationals a couple of times, and probably help work with a small race team until that team could allow to let him race for returning the favor of working with them, something like that.

In reply to drdisque: Yes, the "Road To Indy" is kinda a ladder system, but I think the difference is that how you climb is still money based. There are a few kart "teams" that prey on the kids whose dad has a ton of money, convincing them that they can be a "pro" one day and bleed as much as they can from them. I've talked before about how expensive karting can get at that level. They don't talk to the kid who finished second or third at a national event, but showed up with used equipment and pulls their practice tires from the bigger teams trash piles.... (see note below) But, they will talk to the kid who finished 8th or 10th or 21st who has an 18-wheeler with his name plastered on it, a full staff to work on his kart and coach him and custom suits and helmets.

If you think about it, though, because of the cost of racing, you really couldn't do a true ladder system. Again, to relate it to football, for example. You find a kid who's really good in football, what's the cost to eventually get them to the pros? At worst, you might have to move them to to a better district, but even that's not necessary. There are still many NFL players who come from small colleges. If the talent is there, it'll be found. But the cost is almost nil. Sure, you have equipment and possibly some football camps. Maybe travel to a camp or two, but that's still not much money. Especially compared to auto racing. On the team side, it takes very little for a college or pro team to send scouts out and look for new talent.

The Formula 4 series, for example, has an expected cost of $100k a year. That's probably bare bones cost. Extra practice? That'll cost. Stuff it into the wall? Time for another chassis. Plus the transportation costs, food, lodging, a staff to help keep it maintained. I'd guess you're probably looking at a minimum of $250k. Again, provided you don't wreck it. And I can guarantee there are no "talent scouts" at those events to look for the next Indy driver. There ARE accountants, however, looking for who's spending the most money on the series. The investment is way too high to take a chance on a kid. You have to be able to back it up with money.

BTW, it's (like most things) not too much different that the way auto racing has been forever. The only difference is the sheer scale. Niki Lauda had to get a huge loan to race F1. "Gentleman racers" were really just "guys with money".

Note: I don't want to sound too bitter about the cost of karting. It is what it is. Most kart teams struggle day to day to make ends meet. The difference is, with stick and ball sports, you can't buy a kid a special football or magic shoes to make them better. In karting/racing, you can absolutely buy your way close to the front.

-Rob

Toyman01 wrote: It all comes down to money. All the talent in the world won't get you a seat unless you have the money that goes with it.

Reminds me of the guy who won a big iRacing competition a few years back (Greger Huttu now that I look it up, hard to find much info on the event now). He's a fisherman who didn't own a car or have a driver's license IRL.

On that note, the best way to find new talent these days is probably through sim racing, such as the GT Academy program. You can get a decent sim setup for under 4 digits and compete on a damn-near-perfectly level playing field with everyone else, which is a quantum leap in meritocracy in racing.

Toyman01 wrote: It all comes down to money. All the talent in the world won't get you a seat unless you have the money that goes with it.

THIS. Was out talking to a bunch of NASCAR guys a few weeks ago and if you want in, have money and lots of it. LOTS.

Circle track probably does better at a ladder system than any other motorsport in the US. It seems to me that the biggest rule to pull off a good ladder system can be summed up in three words:

Pack the stands.

If you can get enough fans buying tickets, and enough event sponsors, then a series can offer big enough purses that a successful racing operation can sustain itself on its winnings. It's also possible that a racing team might be able to fund its driver development on sponsorship money if the lower level series can reach a wide enough audience. Unless the racing can, to some extent, pay for itself at lower levels, you end up with a pay to play operation. Which, as many have noted in this thread, has often been the state of motorsports.

I only mention this because it's kind of related, but Gran Turismo, of all things, mentioned bringing back their starter program. Whatever it was, they took the best of the best drivers playing, and I think the top 5 were taken to a track and let lose in a real car. Some of them actually did well. Simulation setups are pricey, but not nearly as pricey as even an entry level circle track car, and some of them are good enough even actual race drivers use them for practice. This might be an area where technology could help find up and coming racers in the future, or even in the now.

It's no secret that our games are getting better and more lifelike. Hell, I still suck at Dirt Rally and I've been playing since September, but I suck because I treat it like a videogame instead of like driving an actual car, which is what it prefers.

Particularly with the rise of esports, even though a lot of it is boring FPS or fighting games, eracing series could start to show off some talent that would otherwise be missed. Granted a lot of the really good game drivers would have trouble getting into an open wheel racecar, not all gamers are fat basement dwellers anymore. Some of the really good ones are even attractive women these days, which is still a bit shocking to me.

Edit: Didn't realize Gameboy mentioned it above me as well.

bmw88rider wrote: The Road to Indy is kind of a joke. If you look at most of the starters in the Indy 500, most didn't come that route. Also, with the way that the Indy series is going, is that really a route that most people would be interested in any more?

23 of the 33 starters in this year's Indy 500 competed in one of the Road to Indy series.