Accessibility of modern racing

I wonder how much the change of the ability of normal people to go racing at the highest of racing has changed how we see it.

I kind of brought up in the re-invent nascar thread that of the current highest levels of the various racing- NASCAR is the only one I think that a group of GRM readers could get together and put a car together to compete with. Anything else is probably outside of our skill set to manufacture. (and I'm not talking renting an Indy car- I'm talking about making it from scratch).

Adrian has brought to light a Lotus 7 that has competed in F1, and I just read a very interesting article in a competitor magazine to CM about a guy who built a single seater with nothing more than a saw, a drill, and a gas welder. Granted, he had some experience working with lotus- so he knew how it should be laid out and designed to work. But the actual skill to make the car was VERY inside the skill set of this board.

This car competed a lot in the South African GP series, and did very well. And when it competed in an actual WC F1 race, it finished 10th- even though the tech in front of it were considerably "better". (this was a 1300CC Alfa Giulia powered car that looked much like a Cooper).

The 60's were tough for a garage builder, but once the Cosworth DFV came along, once again, it was very possible for a group of people with above average fabrication skills to put together a good F1 effort.

There are plenty of stories of Indy car homebuilts. Some of which did really well.

But over time, the change to specialized manufacturing of the chassis and aero changed a lot.

On the other hand, NASCAR is still a welded roll bar chassis with a V8- I know I'm being quite simplistic, but compared to making a modern formula car or sports prototype car- they are quite easy to make.

Exocet laser cuts tubes and welds them together as a kit for your Miata. They could easily change the program to cut and weld a modern circle track chassis.

Anyway, it's interesting to see how the top end motorsports has varied in it's accessibility for people to get into.

While some may not consider "Trans Am" racing to be top tier racing I do! I remember the series back to the 60's when some of the biggest names in racing participated. I was also an active member of that group as a volunteer crew member on a small team from the late 80's to the late 90's which I consider the best period for that series as most of the races were on TV. Many were broadcast live or with a slight delay so they fit a particular time slot.

Getting back to the cars. You can participate in the current series on 5 levels, each being a different level of car prep and/or type of car.

http://gotransam.com/transam101/

I do think there are to many classes but they are trying to increase the car count so I can't fault them for that.

In reply to jimbbski:

Actually, it's interesting to note that Trans-Am has evolved much like NASCAR has- take a sedan of some type, cage it, and go racing. Over time, the car have become more and more custom tube chassis to the point now that the tech that a Cup car and a Trans Am car are almost identical.

Now Trans-Am has quite few classes that vary from close to what it was to what it became.

Endurance racing changed a lot, too- back when Can Am started- it was common to see home built cars on the grid. And they were very similar to the WC cars. Not anymore.

I think the toughest part of building a modern Cup car would be getting the body right. Have you seen the bloody templates they put on them for super speedway races?

Around here it's dirt track. Lot of home built stuff there.

In reply to KyAllroad:

Dirt track seems to be the last really "cheap" racing to allow you to go far.

Streetwiseguy wrote: I think the toughest part of building a modern Cup car would be getting the body right. Have you seen the bloody templates they put on them for super speedway races?

none of the body parts are fabricated any more- it's all provided by the manufacturers to the teams. it's just a matter of welding them to the chassis in the proper place..

And "cheap" is still relative. My boss a late model that would cost around 60 grand to replicate and that's moderately competitive. Apparently the new standard is to spend around 100 large to win consistently.

This explains why I autocross....

Sprint cars: Any local guy running a 410 could easily jump into the World of Outlaws.

Drag racing: Most of your fast stuff is built in home garages. You won't get to TF/FC/PS, but getting to Top Alcohol, Super Stock, and even Pro Mod is all done.

LSR: Almost all of the cars at Bonneville and El Mirage, etc are homebuilt.

Rally America: Maybe not the top class, but the vast majority of the cars running are garage builds. It wasn't that along ago that Bill Coswell ran a WRC event in his homebuilt E30.

technically time trials is "racing" although not in the door-to-door sense. That's a way to hit road-racing tracks without spending a mint. Autocross and rallycross are losing my interest because the nearest venue is now well over an hour away, and driving that far for three minutes of seat time is generally not worth it. There is still Kart racing, and I may have to give roundy-round a try sometime.

I've said it before, but I'd like to see more "low-speed" tracks - something a bit larger than a kart track, with lots of turns, but where few cars will go over 60 MPH. The facility costs will be lower and the need for expensive safety gear less.

I can hit 75 mph in two places on our local kart track. Keeping most vehicles under 60 would be pretty difficult. Heck, I think even autox has a theoretical max speed of 70 according to K&K.

Much as people like to make fun of the crude tech in NASCAR, I don't think a car capable of qualifying for a Cup race is within the realm of a GRM-style budget. It may be "just" a welded tube-frame, but there's a lot more subtlety to it than appears on the surface, and AIUI there aren't many qualifying spots available at most races once the guaranteed entries are gone.

I dunno if this counts as "top" or not, but probably the most accessible major league racing is the GT classes in ALMS/Grand Am/whatever-it's-called-now.

All, while your examples are great- I'm talking the top racing out there.

F1, Indycar, NASCAR, FIA Endurance/LeMans.

There's plenty of racing out there that we can get to. But the top of the top USED to be accessible via some really good basic fabrication. And right now, the only one that really good basic fabrication can get you in is NASCAR.

60 years ago, you could go to a Sunbeam dealer, cage it, and drive it at LeMans. Or weld up your own chassis and go prototype or F1 racing.

There are paths do to do that now- but not at the top.

Seems like the best a decent fabricator could get into is GT3 racing other than NASCAR.

BTW, I'n not talking costs- I'm talking the skill set needed to make a car. Machining and welding are skills this board can do. CF layup is another thing.

In reply to codrus: It's still careful cutting and welding.

I'm not saying easy or cheap. Just the skills.

Visit a Nascar garage and see how they build them

Our NE modifieds are factory built and not cheap.

Ice racing is probably the cheapest form of racing.

In reply to iceracer:

I have to say Karts is the cheapest form of racing today.

alfadriver wrote: On the other hand, NASCAR is still a welded roll bar chassis with a V8- I know I'm being quite simplistic, but compared to making a modern formula car or sports prototype car- they are quite easy to make.

As easy as they would be to make, you can pick up last year's chassis for remarkably cheap, if you know where to look. Cheaper than the cost of fabrication, probably.

It won't have all of the latest geometry revisions and you would still need a drivetrain, but it would get you out on course that much quicker.

Who says we can't do CF layup? Heck,every time a GRM staffer gets a weird little autox car we get an article on making your own wing.

Keith Tanner wrote: Who says we can't do CF layup?

I can do CF - it was my job for about a year in college - but I never learned to weld.

In reply to Knurled:

That's true. The Skill set on this broad can easily b e employed in a Top NASCAR team. Now, if everyone contribute some funds, We can enter a cup team relatively quickly, Similar to how Tommy Baldwin Racing started in 2009.

Keith Tanner wrote: Who says we can't do CF layup? Heck,every time a GRM staffer gets a weird little autox car we get an article on making your own wing.

Who has access to an autoclave? A really big one?

What you are pointing out is glorified fiberglass. Very different than making a chassis.

Have a look at the homebuilt stuff being used for British hillclimb. You'd be amazed at what's being put together.

Want an autoclave? It's just more cutting and welding. Heck, it's just a big pressure chamber. Get yourself a big propane tank or something and cut the end off. A 1000 gallon tank is about 41" across and 192" long. Sure, it's going to take some work. But why should it be easy?

I'm okay with it being difficult to compete at the pinnacle of the sport. While I theoretically have the skills to compete in the 100m at the Olympics - i.e., I can run 100m - that's obviously not going to happen. Nobody wants to see that.

Didn't Morgan take a run at Le Mans in the past decade?

I think that's part of the appeal of NASCAR racing. There are so many teams running and the cars are similar enough to short track cars that is a real progression of people from lower levels up to Cup teams. I know at least a dozen people I worked with at various levels have made there way down south, my neighbors kid works for RCR, and the crew chief on Denny Hamlins car grew up down the block from my cousin. Other top series seem to be very disconnected from the lower ranks. Obviously the guys that make it to the top are generally far more skilled than the guys that don't make. I know I was not in the same league as the guys I worked worked with that moved on but for those that are talented enough there's a path to get there.

In reply to Keith Tanner:

When was the last time a "garageista" competed in an F1 race, or at Indy? It's happened. And now it's virtually impossible.

I understand that that that's not appealing to you. But I bet some are. AND it's interesting how the most accessible series is the one most here don't like. At least it is to me.

Cheapest entry into a season of FIA endurance racing is a Porsche gt3rs. About 1 million for a season. Not cheap!