96DXCivic
96DXCivic HalfDork
12/14/09 11:59 a.m.

I am trying to design the steering system for a four wheel human powered vehicle and I was going to design it with full Ackermann. However the problem is the steering arms do not attach directly at the kingpin axis. What can I do to fix? Also here is a picture of the outboard package I am working around.

djsilver
djsilver New Reader
12/14/09 3:59 p.m.

In reply to 96DXCivic:

Is that the steering link attached to the arm at the bottom-center of the picture or is it the "toe link"? I see what looks like a drive shaft to spin the wheel but I don't see a "king pin" or anything else that would let the wheel change directions.
The link below is for RC cars but has some of the best and easiest explanations I've seen. Pay attention to whether your steering arms are behind or in front of the axles, as the adjustments are backwards from each other for the same effect.

http://www.rctek.com/technical/handling/index.php

unevolved
unevolved Reader
12/14/09 8:19 p.m.

Don't look at the actual steering arm when doing your calculations. All that matters (right now) is the line between the end of the steering arm and the king pin axis. The steering arm could be L-shaped and accomplish the same thing as long as the tie-rod end is at the same location.

Jensenman
Jensenman SuperDork
12/14/09 8:56 p.m.

unevolved is right. The shape of the steering arm means nothing so don't let that throw you.

Here's the the things that WILL throw you:

Is the car 'front steer' or 'rear steer'? That is, is the steering mechanism ahead of the axle centerline or behind it?

The short version of Ackerman change: on a 'front steer' car, if the steering mechanism is too far forward of the axle centerline and angles the tie rods away from the axle centerline at rest, the car will have 'reverse Ackerman', meaning the outside tire will turn more than the inside. So you move the steering mechanism rearward in relation to the outer tie rod ball joints to correct this. The opposite is true for 'rear steer' setups. In most cases, for correct Ackerman you draw a line through the outer steering ball joint mount points, another parallel line through the axle centerline then draw lines through the tie rods, the steering mechanism tie rods will angle from the outer pivot points toward the axle centerline when at rest. All these lines are viewed from above.

Are you using rack and pinion or parallelogram (steering box, Pitman arm and idler arm) steering? That makes a difference as well. On R&P setups, you move the rack mounting frontwards/rearwards to change Ackerman. On 'front steer' parallelogram steering, the Pitman arm and idler arm must point forward from the axle centerline and the opposite is true for 'rear steer' setups. You still change your Ackerman the same way, you just move your pivot points rather than a complete steering rack. FWIW, it's easier to fix Ackerman with parallelogram steering than with R&P because as the Pitman arm and idler arm move, they bring the center link closer to the axle centerline. That doesn't happen with R&P; the inner ball joints just move side to side and not fore/aft, meaning with steering input the tie rods change angle in a way which affects the Ackerman.

Be careful of too much Ackerman. If the inside tire turns too much it will scrub, just as if it does not have enough. On a human powered vehicle even on dirt that's unwanted drag which must be overcome by the 'powerplant'.

You also need to be careful of bump steer. I can't see the length of the tie rod (I assume it's the carbon fiber looking tube at the bottom of the picture), but if it is appreciably shorter than the control arms then bump steer will come into play and that can cause Ackerman changes as well. You may have to compromise and have your inner tie rod pivot inboard of the control arm pivots.

rjones33
rjones33 New Reader
12/15/09 8:57 a.m.

uhm, can we get pics of this whole thing? cool.

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