In reply to Adrian_Thompson (Forum Supporter) :
You make a good point about cross-shopping.
Will the Integra Type S be more than I'd be willing to pay? Probably, but for the person out there who's shopping for a modern-day Integra Type R–price probably isn't as big a concern for them.
At any rate, I'll do my best to update you all as soon as I have pricing information to share.
In reply to calteg :
I would argue a decent percentage of Gen Xers can operate a manual as well. How many of those have the funds and desire to buy one? Well... that's a different conversation.
But I tend to agree with Adrian. If selling cars is actually a goal, then making a car manual-only seems a bit short-sighted.
j_tso said:ShinnyGroove (Forum Supporter) said:The whole thing makes me wonder if brands like Acura, Lexus, Infiniti even need to exist any more, or what they even mean.
It's not just the cars that define the premium brand but also the dealership experience. Never been to an Acura, but comparing a Lexus dealer to Toyota is like Macy's to Walmart.
Most Acura dealers are just Honda dealers with the employees wearing a engineering compass logo instead of an H
I guess the question I'd have is why would I pick an Integra Type S over a Civic Type R? Especially given the fact that they're basically the same car but the Integra is significantly more expensive? If the ITS is coming with the same powertrain, suspension, diff etc as the CTR, all you're getting is a different body shell and interior. Both of which probably won't be different enough to warrant the price differential. And if the price is as predicted, plus the dealer mark ups, that get the ITS into serious competition that I'd personally much rather buy. Like an Audi RS3 for instance...
In reply to calteg :
In reply to Ian F (Forum Supporter) :
I'm Gen X, (1969) as I've said many times before, having been born in the UK I grew up believing that the only reason to own an auto was because you lacked the requisite limbs to operate a manual. That was partly dick swinging ego laughing at silly Americans and old people, and partly because when I grew up a 100 hp car was heady stuff that only rich old farts could afford to insure. Stick an old vacuum/rev/load controlled three speed auto behind an anemic 60-100hp 4 cyl was like crimping the exhaust down to 1/4 in and making the intake a McDonalds straw. They sucked and were truly awful, those auto's really took away from the driving experience.
I started to change my mind when I moved here. First I drove some C4 Corvettes, the early ones with the awful 4+3 Doug Nash and the low power, high torque L98 engine. I discovered the car was better, more controllable, and a hell of a lot more fun to drive with the auto. Next was driving the then new E39 540 which was the first car I drove with a really well calibrated electronic auto. Wow, what a revelation, for a 'non performance' car it was amazing, it did a great job of anticipating what you needed, with the right level of gear holding and also kick down to make it fun to hustle along. Add in the increase from 3 to 4 to 5 to 6, 7, and 8 speeds along with computer control of the torque convertor and in my experience most modern auto's are far superior to manuals. I no longer give a flying monkeys left nut about the joy of shifting. That's great for driving your classic car down the back roads at 5/10ths, but even after that, I'm happy to go back to two pedal driving as soon as I'm in traffic. If you're track driving, then the only thing that matters is lap times, and a third pedal will always be slower than two.
I get it that there are a small, but significant number of people who will always look down on auto's of any type (including DSG and other automated manuals) as inferior and assume ownership = lack of ability and I'm getting really really tired of it. I and many others now prefer auto's from a driving and ownership POV and I can hold my head up high at any GRM meet up and proudly say 'I prefer auto's' The only cars I can possibly see choosing a manual for are a Miata or Frisbee, but I'd sure as heck test drive the auto before making that decision.
I recently got my 2008 Volvo C30 back on the road after it's been sitting for three years. That's a manual (ordered it that way for overseas delivery) and I was interested to see what I thought about going back to a manual. Easy answer, meh, not worth it. It's different, not better or worse, different, and sure as hell a PIA for driving in traffic.
kumbaymotherberkeleyinga and stop looking down on people for not worshiping at the alter of three pedals.
docwyte said:I guess the question I'd have is why would I pick an Integra Type S over a Civic Type R? Especially given the fact that they're basically the same car but the Integra is significantly more expensive? If the ITS is coming with the same powertrain, suspension, diff etc as the CTR, all you're getting is a different body shell and interior. Both of which probably won't be different enough to warrant the price differential. And if the price is as predicted, plus the dealer mark ups, that get the ITS into serious competition that I'd personally much rather buy. Like an Audi RS3 for instance...
I'm guessing the only differences we'll see are: ELS Sound System (likely the 16 speaker setup in TLX Type S), Leather seating (red, orchid, and black), and maybe ambient lighting. If it comes with the massaging seats found in the MDX Type S, well you would see me shopping that instead of the Type R LOL.
Hang on, just went to teh Acura site and it looks like all the 'autos' are CVT. If that's the case, all bets are off, three pedals please. CVT's are one of those brilliant ideas that Engineering still hasn't got to grips with for the real world.
In reply to DirtyBird222 :
That's just not going to justify the large price differential between the two cars....
docwyte said:In reply to DirtyBird222 :
That's just not going to justify the large price differential between the two cars....
Yea I know. I was just saying that would be the one thing that would lure me that way due to back pains
They should stick a massively oversized turbo on the thing, to bring back the spirit of the original Integra. No power until after 6k. =P
I just want to say that I think the car itself will be awesome, but it will probably be overpriced, and 15 years from now they will probably be classed really well for auto-x and everyone on this forum will be talking about how overlooked they were when they were new.
te72 said:They should stick a massively oversized turbo on the thing, to bring back the spirit of the original Integra. No power until after 6k. =P
They'll just sell a Radwood DLC.
For $29.99 a month they'll set the ECU to cut the power until 5700 RPM and you can re live the feeling of Vtec kicking in.
It's 2022. Less is more.
In reply to CrustyRedXpress :
Don't give them ideas haha. =P
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