After we pulled our 1991 Toyota MR2 Turbo back into the shop and started to inspect it after the engine fire at Daytona International Speedway, we realized that things were ugly. Fortunately, though, the damage was far from catastrophic.
So, what happened? An oil cooler line, held back by a metal bracket that had fatigued or somehow failed, contacted the …
We try to total fire vehicles because, like a flood car, they tend to be never-ending sources of trouble. Engine fires aren't terribly hard to fix and make run but you still have the cosmetics to deal with. Also, the smoke smell that gets into the interior can be difficult to eradicate.
After repairs I will buy this car with a rebuilt title. No problem. ;^)
Jerry said:After repairs I will buy this car with a rebuilt title. No problem. ;^)
You might have to fight JG for that.
I'm curious about how they handle the "no fault" decision on a modified car. I could see most insurance companies equate modifying it to somehow blaming you which I obviously hope they don't.
I'm astounded that they're entertaining covering it. Watching with interest.
Tyler H said:I'm astounded that they're entertaining covering it. Watching with interest.
You and me both. And I've been radically transparent at every step, since I basically can't enlist everyone who's ever read a story about the car into a conspiracy. My insurer has the entirety of every project car story I've written about it in their possession and I still haven't gotten any indication that they're going to den the claim. If they cover it they've earned a customer for life from me I think.
From the carrier perspective, there could be a few things in play. First, this isn't a liability claim...i.e. you didn't crash into someone else and hurt them or damage their property. That's the biggest reason the racing exclusion is in there. This is a "1st party" claim for their policyholder. Contrary to belief, carriers look to find ways to provide coverage for their customer, not deny it. I could easily say that this was a mechanical failure which could have easily happened during street use. The mechanical failure itself isn't covered (i.e. the failed bracket), however the resulting damages (i.e. the fire) is covered. That's one way they could provide coverage.
The other way is the plain and simple business decision. If they feel it's in their best interest for customer service to provide coverage, they can...assuming you can find a way to offer coverage as I outlined above. It could be because you're GRM, it could also simply be because they want your continued business and it's worth the cost to them. I do it all the time.
Regardless, glad they're looking at coverage. If you have questions, just ask.
Sounds like it was a relatively slight seepage of oil if it only lost ~0.5qt out of a high-pressure line.
SKJSS (formerly Klayfish) said:From the carrier perspective, there could be a few things in play. First, this isn't a liability claim...i.e. you didn't crash into someone else and hurt them or damage their property. That's the biggest reason the racing exclusion is in there. This is a "1st party" claim for their policyholder. Contrary to belief, carriers look to find ways to provide coverage for their customer, not deny it. I could easily say that this was a mechanical failure which could have easily happened during street use. The mechanical failure itself isn't covered (i.e. the failed bracket), however the resulting damages (i.e. the fire) is covered. That's one way they could provide coverage.
The other way is the plain and simple business decision. If they feel it's in their best interest for customer service to provide coverage, they can...assuming you can find a way to offer coverage as I outlined above. It could be because you're GRM, it could also simply be because they want your continued business and it's worth the cost to them. I do it all the time.
Regardless, glad they're looking at coverage. If you have questions, just ask.
Relevant to this, one thing the adjuster said to me regarding comprehensive claims that resonated was "We don't cover the cause, we cover the result." So, yeah, that seems to make sense in this case.
And for what it's worth, I never really played the "I work for a car magazine" card until we were deep into the process and I thought it would be interesting to write about. Not that I'm immune from playing that card necessarily, but I'd rather not have to resort to the "do you know who I am?" method to get things done in my life because far too often the answer will likely be "no," or the even worse "yes, and I don't care."
how much does this " insurance" cost per year?
how much is the car "worth"... i.e. the amount of money they will pay out for the car when "totalled" ?
In reply to billstewartx :
ACV. Actual Cash Value, the value of the vehicle just prior to the loss.
arkansasrider said:In reply to billstewartx :
ACV. Actual Cash Value, the value of the vehicle just prior to the loss.
Yeah the value they came back with was on the low side of what it was probably worth on the open market, which is a lot more than the actual blue book value. So they clearly did some research.
Was your MR2 on agreed value insurance or just the standard rate? I've often wondered what happens during an incident with a custom valuation as I currently have one on my Integra.
In reply to SKJSS (formerly Klayfish) :
this is a comp claim and they do not usually cause your premiums to go up like a liability or collision claim will. They will pay for the damage but not the item that failed. I'm sure Flo is happy to help you Davidh
I always start out the negotiations with what I want the result to be. Do you want them to haul away the wreck and hand you a check? Is it OK with you for them to take the car to a shop that the insurance company uses or may even have a financial interest in, or do you want to pick the shop? Do you want to keep what's left of the car and fix it yourself? I would assume the GRM way would be to keep the car and fix it.
When my Miata was hit, I actually ended up with the car and a check from the other party's insurance company. But this happened on a public street. The lady who hit me was 100% at fault. I took the car directly to my garage and no shop or insurance company ever had possession of it. And I knew some crazy lawyers who the insurance company would actually pay just to go away. Your mileage may vary. Especially if it is covered by your policy and their is no other party. Don't forget to read the fine print.
I had my 88 Rx7 full stripped and caged race car clobbered on the highway. Driver in middle lane lost control (straight highway on a clear sunny day) and bashed me into the center divider. The insurance company saw an old trashed car on bald worn out tires and gave me a low quote. I saw a new race car on new race tires that was worth a lot more. Fortunately I had ALL the receipts on a spreadsheet. The insurance company thoroughly understands spreadsheets and assessed nearly 100% of the spreadsheet values. I then kept the wreck and moved all the parts over to another Rx7. I even sold the shell ($100) to a racer who bought an Rx7 race car in boxes and needed a template to figure out how the puzzle assembled back into a race car.
Lesson: keep and document the receipts.
Edit: In case it was not clear, I had no collision on my race car, so my insurance company did nothing. The at-fault driver's insurance paid. That fact did not seem to make negotiations better or worse.
Thankfully I've had very few insurance claims over 28 years of holding my own policy with the same provider, but I've never had a bad experience.
I typically only carry liability on my 'old' cars that I take on HPDEs, for what I thought were obvious reasons: insurance companies don't know how to value old sports cars and definitely wouldn't cover claims on comprehensive for mechanical failures. But that was just an assumption. If they cover anything in this case, I will reconsider my assumption.
I did hit my friend's car in a driveway once. She moved her black car into the grass next to my parked 2500HD. I couldn't see it from the driver seat at night and cut into it while backing out. No damage to my truck at idle speed, $4700 in damage to an Altima. I called my agent Monday AM and told him I wanted white glove treatment for her because I did something dumb and they delivered.
I'm not an insurance hater, but maybe I'm not leaning into it like I should? If they cover this, might upgrade my coverage.
As a former insurance agent here are few things that might help:
1. You can negotiate the ACV value by showing receipts and or comps on other cars with similar "upgrades" as yours, values much higher than what the "book" says. Obviously you've got some of this covered since there's a $15,000 number floating around but don't consider that the end all be all number.
2. Just like number 1, you can negotiate the salvage or buy-back value. To the insurance company the car is pretty much worthless at this point. All they see is a 30 year old car that has little salvage value to major salvage resellers. You should definitely work to get that value down. A car of this age should have a buy-back value of around $1500 or so although it can vary slightly with where you're located in the US.
You should be negotiating every step of this process to get the best deal for YOU, not the insurance company. They've likely dangled the $15k "carrot" because they know it should be more. Remember, you're not negotiating for only the parts that were damaged but rather the whole car, keep that in mind when you consider what you're willing to accept. The purpose of this type of insurance is to make you whole again, not kinda-sorta whole.
JG Pasterjak saidMy insurer has the entirety of every project car story I've written about it in their possession and I still haven't gotten any indication that they're going to den the claim. If they cover it they'll know the PR value will be incalculable I think.
jg
Fixed
ARrotard said:
They've likely dangled the $15k "carrot" because they know it should be more.
Appreciate your input and much of it is accurate. However the part quoted above is not, at all.
Jerry From LA said:JG Pasterjak saidMy insurer has the entirety of every project car story I've written about it in their possession and I still haven't gotten any indication that they're going to den the claim. If they cover it they'll know the PR value will be incalculable I think.
jg
Fixed
Yes but I'm not looking for any special favors
[...he said, while applying a massive vinyl portrait of Flo to the hood of his car]
JG Pasterjak said:arkansasrider said:In reply to billstewartx :
ACV. Actual Cash Value, the value of the vehicle just prior to the loss.
Yeah the value they came back with was on the low side of what it was probably worth on the open market, which is a lot more than the actual blue book value. So they clearly did some research.
Any modified car will end up on the short end of the stick value-wise because the prospective buyer pool for such a vehicle has been narrowed by the mods. Large parts of the car-buying public won't touch a car that has been modded in any meaningful way. A possible exception might be DeTomaso Panteras because most of the mods actually make the car more reliable and livable.
Most policies I've worked with have a 'enhancements' limit for added bling (wheels, stereos, GRM style mods). If you want more than that covered you have to purchase an additional endorsement or rider.
Again,
1-- how much does this insurance cost?
2-- what was the " actual cash value" (in USD) that they said a 30 year old MR2 was worth?
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