Advice for buying a new track car

johndej said:

https://grassrootsmotorsports.com/articles/how-tackle-your-first-track-day/

I would say whatever you are driving in autocross right now, sign up for a track day in that. Go there and as z31maniac mentioned, actually partake in your first track day. You don't need to decide what gridlife event you're doing before actually going to the track. Getting that box checked and getting some seat time at speed will help show you where to go better than anything on this forum...but miata is the answer.

I would somewhat agree and somewhat disagree. I agree that he should get out there and actually put a car on track before investing a ton of time, money and effort into building it. For simply tracking a car to get some real world experience, I would agree, Miata is the answer. 

With that said, if he really wants to compete, it will save him a considerable amount of time, money and effort to buy the right car from the start. If it were me, I would buy an inexpensive car that could be built to be competitive and take that to my first track day- be it a Miata or whatever might be competitive in a class he's interested in. I would get some good brake pads, brake fluid, do all the normal/deferred maintenance and maybe some tires that won't rip themselves to pieces, and get out to his first track day to see if it's really for him. If he wants to compete in a specific class, better to buy a car that has a competitive edge to begin with than to start with a car that he'll sink countless amounts of time and money into, only to be frustrated, sell it and start over. 

Miata or BRZ

parttimeaddict said:

In reply to z31maniac :

No thanks.

Go buy an S2000, spend $10k K-swapping it, have one of your boys put a cage in it, skimp on the safety equipment, and send it. 

In my humble opinion, graduating from autox and the occasional HPDE to significant track day and time attack use, also means taking driver safety more seriously. My problem with the ND for this application is that the tallest rollbar that will fit under the soft top is only 2" taller than the stock hoops, that probably aren't even taller than your unhelmeted head. You really don't want rollover impact forces going directly through your neck/spine. If you completely remove the soft top and put on an aftermarket hard top, you can get a roll bar 4" taller than stock, which at least has a chance at not leaving your helmeted head the tallest point on the car. If Miata is the answer here, the NC can at least fit a 4" taller than stock roll bar under the stock soft top.

If you really want a true 'advanced' dual-use track car, I'd be looking for a tin-top. And even then, no harness without a roll bar, even if not actually required. Mustang and Camaro track pack models would be strong contenders.

If you have any desire to ever actually be competitive with this car, you'll largely be picking the car based on its competitiveness within the rules for the class(es) you want to run. Picking the wrong car (or spec of car) can leave you perpetually outclassed, and leave your satisfaction with it decreasing as your skills are increasing.

DirtyBird222 said:

parttimeaddict said:

In reply to z31maniac :

No thanks.

Go buy an S2000, spend $10k K-swapping it, have one of your boys put a cage in it, skimp on the safety equipment, and send it. 

I have an AP2 S2000 and I have to disagree with this. I love the S2000, but they aren't cheap these days- they're becoming borderline collectible. With the fine folks at KPower releasing a K-swap kit for the NC, I would buy an NC (for a fraction of the cost of an S2000), K-swap it and send it. Similar interior space, 300 lbs lighter, more aluminum suspension components (read: lower rust potential), easier to drive at the limit, better steering feel (hydraulic vs EPS steering) and I wouldn't feel nearly as bad about cutting up the fenders to stuff huge tires underneath them. 

The only argument for the K-swapped S2000 (vs K-swapped NC) is the fact that you can sell the S2000's F20/F22 for a small fortune to help recoup quite a bit of the cost of K-swapping it. 

parttimeaddict said:

In reply to z31maniac :

I don't do much angry driving. I laid out the path of competition I want to take. I'll have track insurance on pretty much anything. Its not that bad

"driving in anger" is just an expression meaning you're driving at 10/10ths chasing lap times vs just cruising around. Which, if you want to do Time Attack, if you aren't chasing lap times, why do that vs just HPDE?

However, just buying a fast car and the class you'll end up in, you won't be competitive. It takes years of experience to be at the pointy end. 

That's why some of us are suggesting starting with something cheaper and learning to drive. You buy a Supra, once you add the extra HP you'll need to compete, brakes, safety equipment, etc, you'll be approaching $80k and you might find you don't like the grind of what it takes to be competitive. 

roninsoldier83 said:

DirtyBird222 said:

parttimeaddict said:

In reply to z31maniac :

No thanks.

Go buy an S2000, spend $10k K-swapping it, have one of your boys put a cage in it, skimp on the safety equipment, and send it. 

I have an AP2 S2000 and I have to disagree with this. I love the S2000, but they aren't cheap these days- they're becoming borderline collectible. With the fine folks at KPower releasing a K-swap kit for the NC, I would buy an NC (for a fraction of the cost of an S2000), K-swap it and send it. Similar interior space, 300 lbs lighter, more aluminum suspension components (read: lower rust potential), easier to drive at the limit, better steering feel (hydraulic vs EPS steering) and I wouldn't feel nearly as bad about cutting up the fenders to stuff huge tires underneath them. 

The only argument for the K-swapped S2000 (vs K-swapped NC) is the fact that you can sell the S2000's F20/F22 for a small fortune to help recoup quite a bit of the cost of K-swapping it. 

This was a sarcastic post. 

DirtyBird222 said:

roninsoldier83 said:

DirtyBird222 said:

parttimeaddict said:

In reply to z31maniac :

No thanks.

Go buy an S2000, spend $10k K-swapping it, have one of your boys put a cage in it, skimp on the safety equipment, and send it. 

I have an AP2 S2000 and I have to disagree with this. I love the S2000, but they aren't cheap these days- they're becoming borderline collectible. With the fine folks at KPower releasing a K-swap kit for the NC, I would buy an NC (for a fraction of the cost of an S2000), K-swap it and send it. Similar interior space, 300 lbs lighter, more aluminum suspension components (read: lower rust potential), easier to drive at the limit, better steering feel (hydraulic vs EPS steering) and I wouldn't feel nearly as bad about cutting up the fenders to stuff huge tires underneath them. 

The only argument for the K-swapped S2000 (vs K-swapped NC) is the fact that you can sell the S2000's F20/F22 for a small fortune to help recoup quite a bit of the cost of K-swapping it. 

This was a sarcastic post. 

My apologies, apparently my sarcasm meter is a bit faulty today (every day?). 

I'd recommend looking at an ND1 Global Cup car. Safe, track hardened with coolers and trans upgrades, and you can actually race it if you want. Plus it'll retain value if you decide to get out.

If you want more power, there's turbo power available for it. Road and Track drove our turbo ND for more than 15 hours on track without a single mechanical hiccough other than a loose sway bar end link. They're a lot quicker than the power numbers would have you believe. 

^I'd listen to this guy, he knows what he's talking about. 

One of the few people I'll listen to unequivocally. 

Keith Tanner said:

I'd recommend looking at an ND1 Global Cup car. Safe, track hardened with coolers and trans upgrades, and you can actually race it if you want. Plus it'll retain value if you decide to get out.

If you want more power, there's turbo power available for it. Road and Track drove our turbo ND for more than 15 hours on track without a single mechanical hiccough other than a loose sway bar end link. They're a lot quicker than the power numbers would have you believe. 

This is what alluded too.  An ND or most any Miata is a great starting point.  Thanks to a healthy aftermarket all the upgrades you would ever want are available.  
 

I knew two guys who stopped racing an NSC to get into Miata's.  They got more track time, spent a lot less and had more fun.

Once you start chasing class glory and accolades instead of fun things get expensive fast and become less fun.  

In reply to Driven5 :

Agree.  I had to fail a guy at track tech last season in a miata because with a helmet on, his head was above the rollbar.  He wasn't even close to passing the 2" broomstick rule.

I'm getting the impression OP doesn't want advice, just wants confirmation of what he wants. 

In reply to AnthonyGS (Forum Supporter) :

Pardon my ignorance, but what is an NSC?

As for the OP, of the options listed, stick with a properly prepared ND Miata.  Outside of that, what tracks are near you, and how are they configured?  Are they tight technical courses, or big high speed tracks like Road America?  Since that's where you'll probably be at the most, that can play a factor in your selection.  

In reply to Keith Tanner :

I agree. The miatas alone put down good times and with a little more power they can fly.

Just dropping this nugget in here, you could always jump into something like an M2Comp for $50k to get into a faster car thats street friendly and reliable and buy a miata when you want to go racing. 

Buying a car to "progress" through advanced HPDE sessions and into hardcore racing is not something I would recommend to anyone that doesnt want to spend years trial/erroring adjustments and MUCHAS dollars prepping a street car for full race duty. Once you are ready to race, go buy a well setup, well documented, and well built race car and make the jump with something someone else sorted. Racing is hard enough work to get into, adding the complexity of building/sorting a race car through the process is only for the stupid (me included). 

Don't do what I did. Don't buy a truck to haul a traile, plus a fun street car, and have a race car for on track stuff. Not sensible at all. 

DirtyBird222 said:

Don't do what I did. Don't buy a truck to haul a traile, plus a fun street car, and have a race car for on track stuff. Not sensible at all. 

I've said many times that if I were to start over again, the first thing I would do is buy a good truck and trailer.  There are approximately 7 million decent/cheap race cars available out there once you remove the street legal requirement.  My driving would have progressed much more quickly if I wasn't so concerned about wrinkling up nice street cars.

In reply to Puddy46 :

I should've typed NSX.

In reply to AnthonyGS (Forum Supporter) :

Ahh, that'll do it.  Thank you for the clarification. 

I hate to be that guy, but if you just want to get going with as little work as possible, grab one of the cheap Teslas (Model 3) that Hertz is selling right now. Then check out the rules for the model 3 challenge. 

https://model3challenge.racing/

Otherwise, just get a Miata. I'm driving a NA and I just started my track journey (started with a little bit of autocross). It's accessible, fun, easy to work on and great on gas! Go for it!

In reply to Duckzero :

I don't know how cheap the hertz deal is. 35K for new + tax credit eligible vs $22K for a 70-80K miles used rental. 

In reply to bmw88rider :

Current price on a base Model 3 with zero add-ons. The base model is not eligible for the federal tax credit starting in 2024.  

I don't want to turn this into an EV thread, but a Tesla is probably not a good choice for a track vehicle right now (especially for a track novice), considering most tracks don't have the capability for them to charge effectively, and some tracks are outright banning electrics because they don't have the infrastructure to deal with EV fires.

Last spring a guy showed up at one of the events we attended with a Model 3 (towed to the track by a Tesla X!), he ran two sessions and put it back on the trailer.  I talked to him, and he said he could get two sessions at full power, but without a supercharger he couldn't charge fast enough to avoid diminishing returns after that.

There are certainly folks out there tracking them, and going fast, but it's a niche that would add a lot of complications for a new driver.

My vote would be ND Miata. Consumables are just so much cheaper than any other option. If you really want to drive and have fun, it's a great option.

That said, it definitely isn't practical. I have two track capable cars, a 2023 Audi RS3 and a 2019 ND Miata. I have had the Audi year and a half, and the Miata about a month. I recently joined as a member at my local track and decided the Audi is a lot too push that hard and that often. Tires and brakes are more expensive and wear way faster. Nothing will give you more seat time than a Miata. And it's fun as hell too. I honestly don't feel like a car faster in a straight line is more fun too drive, but I do enjoy driving both cars because they drive differently. To me, the fun is about learning each car. The power is just something that makes them unique. Launching the RS3 is fun as hell though.

The Supra does seem fun though. I have never driven them. I have driven Mustang GTs and GT350s on track, and they don't feel that different from my RS3 to where I would want it enough to buy one. The Miata does, though.

I don't want to trailer my cars, so I just drive them. The Audi can fit a set of spare wheels and gear in it. The Miata can haul a few things, but definitely not wheels. Something else to consider.