With the advantage of hindsight, perhaps sending off two absolute noobs in an off-road, high-performance side-by-side during a press introduction was asking for an incident.
“Ever drive one of these before?”
“Nope. You?”
“Same.”
We’d figure it all out somehow, right? Gas on the right, brakes on the left, no bumping.
For the first session, I’d be the passenger/ballast.
Halfway …
Hindsight always seems to be 20/20, especially in these situations. It's a good reminder.
Oof. Glad you mostly got a reminder of how wrong things can go, though it doesn't sound like "unscathed" is quite the word either.
Important stuff, calculated risk, and figuring out how much calculation to do, and when there are important differences between "casual" and "stupid." That's very much not directed at anybody in this anecdote, it's just a truly difficult thing to spot, doubly so if the flow of the event is sweeping you along.
I've been thinking about this sort of thing lately with a longing eye cast toward some of the Australian and British car and bike track events. I like how these seem (from a distance, at least) to keep some of the aggression and competition tamped down where it's not appropriate, but I also don't know how one fosters—let alone enforces—the sort of "casual but serious" combo needed to keep things light while not so light as to be inappropriate for the fundamentals of vehicles on track. And they don't have perfect records, either.
These things, in stock form, can't be tossed too hard. And the factory roll cages are made of tin foil. They need to be lower, stiffer, and a proper cage fitted before they're safe to push things.
There was a time not long before working at GRM when I sold used cars. (I was very bad at it.)
The short version is that I didn't listen to my gut when a young driver (probably about my age) wanted to test drive a C6 ZR1. Both of us walked away, but the world lost a ZR1 that night.
These things are the three wheelers of the modern age.
te72 said:These things are the three wheelers of the modern age.
You know, you might have a point there. Still surprised at how easily we rolled. It was like we fell off a step or something.
Those things look like the result of a dare by someone to see if they could sell millions of vehicles that are as roll happy as possible in an environment of extreme vehicle safety.
I remember seeing commercials for some version (almost the cost of a road car BTW) and then a few months later commercials from one of those law firm looking for people injured when driving one. I would have thought the lawsuits would have killed them by now.
As a Corvair guy, I can guarantee those thing are way easier to roll than a pre 64 Corvair (lates are almost impossible to roll) which in reality is rather hard to roll except in some rather rare circumstances..
Does anyone here have a side-by-side? How are you digging it? And roll it yet?
te72 said:These things are the three wheelers of the modern age.
The first 3 wheeler I got on , 10 minutes later I looped it going up a small hill and it was on top of me running !
Not hurt, just a few scratches , but I learned to lean forward and had fun with them for years :)
My buddies built theirs up with 3x the horsepower and I learned not to ride over my skill just to keep up ,
I don't own one but have multiple friends that do...............if you chuck them around like a rally car it only takes a small rut to put it on it's lid. Basically if you can keep the rear tires spinning you're fine but if they suddenly grip you're likely going over.
FWIW, I did become fast friends with my driver. We broke bread that evening. I might have gotten more than a few hugs.
All vehicles require some level of respect by nature. Learning what that level is can be hazardous if one has not received the proper background information and applied it. Had a friend who had his arm broken in a situation similar to yours. He was a passenger, driver was on his first drive in a side by side. Transitioning from dirt to pavement in a slide was not kind. Arm restraints are a great idea for these vehicles. Would the average user wear them? I seriously doubt it. It’s a fine line between protecting people from themselves and restricting our abilities to enjoy our hobbies. I don’t know where that point is. I see at least 98 percent of the ATV riders around here riding without helmets. Risk management should be a personal decision. Education can help people make the right decisions. I am glad the GRM provides their readers with good information on safety related to our sport. Glad that your outcome was better than my friends.
This wasn't my first crash but, thinking back, it was more like a bike crash than a car crash in that it all happened so quickly. All of a sudden, it really was sky, ground, sky, ground. All the while my brain was trying to catch up: Is this really happening?
I was very happy to see at the last CFR rallycross of 2022, the Safety Steward sent one quad entrant home that didn't have the required equipment to enter. To many incidences and bye bye insurance company's coverage. Read the rules folks, before you show up!
People begged for these at SCCA RallyCrosses. So the SCCA relented and made a class for them. To legally run them, you must have a 1:1 track/height ratio, which generally requires wheel spacers or lowering or both.
They are a lot faster when lowered. They look a lot less tippy when slammed beyond the rules requirements. They still roll.
But people begged for them? You can buy a whole lot of car for what these cost and you don't have to dial back your driving to keep them on their wheels.
"Its better to be careful 1000 times than be killed once" Mark Twain
jharry3 said:"Its better to be careful 1000 times than be killed once" Mark Twain
Very true. Once you're dead, you're dead.
My raspberries did heal. A friend is a physician specializing in wound care.
I asked him if I was going to be okay.
He didn't even look at my arm. "You're fine," he said, "you're fine."
I'm not saying any machine is inherently dangerous, but the fact remains that these things are definitely not for everybody. I mean, they have extremely squishy suspension, and yet plenty of them have well over 100hp. You wouldn't put 800hp in a lifted Buick LeSabre, but the same idea is somehow normal on an ATV, in terms of power to weight and height to width ratios.
Just... they're just dumb as "sporting" vehicles. As utility vehicles, fine. Give the things super aggressive gearing to keep the top speeds in check. Can't drive them on the interstate anyway, so why do they have top speeds in excess of 70, 80?
I don't have any use of or desire to own one, but they're everywhere around here. This happened about four houses down from me. I was in the garage when this happened, and have NO idea how I didn't hear it haha:
Lof8 - Andy said:These things, in stock form, can't be tossed too hard. And the factory roll cages are made of tin foil. They need to be lower, stiffer, and a proper cage fitted before they're safe to push things.
Andy here is our resident SxS racing expert. Id be curious to hear more about what he has found having raced one for a while now.
Thanks for scaring me off the idea of one of these. That's money I don't need to spend anyway. I'm much happier on bikes, and those scare me sufficiently to ride within my limits and with all the gear.
There exists a Kubota 1400 in my family. It's a hydrostatic drive diesel machine. Very capable, but not fast. I think it tops out at 30-35 in high gear. Maybe that's fine.
In reply to Cactus :
They are actually fine but you can't fling them around like the are World Rally Cars.......at least not in stock trim.
I have friends that own them and they're great for exploring. The key is to not be an idiot.
Pete. (l33t FS) said:People begged for these at SCCA RallyCrosses. So the SCCA relented and made a class for them. To legally run them, you must have a 1:1 track/height ratio, which generally requires wheel spacers or lowering or both.
They are a lot faster when lowered. They look a lot less tippy when slammed beyond the rules requirements. They still roll.
But people begged for them? You can buy a whole lot of car for what these cost and you don't have to dial back your driving to keep them on their wheels.
I know a site that doesn't allow them to rallycross. The site of one about to tip put an end to it.
I sure wouldn't drive one the way O drive my Subaru on dirt. I'd die that way.
If they can be tipped over like cattle, they don't belong in a racing environment. =P
te72 said:I'm not saying any machine is inherently dangerous, but the fact remains that these things are definitely not for everybody. I mean, they have extremely squishy suspension, and yet plenty of them have well over 100hp. You wouldn't put 800hp in a lifted Buick LeSabre, but the same idea is somehow normal on an ATV, in terms of power to weight and height to width ratios.
Not that your point isn't valid but there are plenty of us who'd put 800HP in a lifted Buick LeSabre.
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