z31maniac said:It's the wind and road noise, not the sound tube.
Didn't claim it'll turn into a Lexus but it helps. Have you done it? Also if a Miata is in consideration, I'm not sure how a twin would be worse in that regard while getting a decent trunk + fixed roof + a (small) backseat + more power (more weight too). Those things certainly make for more of a "GT" car than a Miata.
All I ever heard about the Gen Coupes was "it's not a true sports car, its more of a Grand Tourer." and yet no one thinks of them when someone asks about a GT car.
bcp2011 said:z31maniac said:It's the wind and road noise, not the sound tube.
Didn't claim it'll turn into a Lexus but it helps. Have you done it? Also if a Miata is in consideration, I'm not sure how a twin would be worse in that regard while getting a decent trunk + fixed roof + a (small) backseat + more power (more weight too). Those things certainly make for more of a "GT" car than a Miata.
No, I didn't see the point in pulling my BRZ apart to install a bunch of sound deadener. It's not really the point of the car.
I didn't recommend a Miata, I recommended a 1 series BMW..........the car I have now after trading my BRZ in on it.
bobzilla said:All I ever heard about the Gen Coupes was "it's not a true sports car, its more of a Grand Tourer." and yet no one thinks of them when someone asks about a GT car.
I'd argue those people never rode shotgun in one at autox with someone who knew what they were doing. One of my instructors surprised me with his street class Gen Coupe. That thing was a riot.
That said, someone brought it up in this thread. OP just isn't into them.
z31maniac said:No, I didn't see the point in pulling my BRZ apart to install a bunch of sound deadener. It's not really the point of the car.
I didn't recommend a Miata, I recommended a 1 series BMW..........the car I have now after trading my BRZ in on it.
To take out the intake sound tube literally takes 5 minutes, you plug the intake and you plug the firewall, done. I said if that was insufficient, some sound deadening would also help, *if* all the other boxes are ticked. The OP wants a compromised car, so it'll be a compromise. Whether it's the "point" of the car or not is irrelevant since every car is a set of compromises.
I also did not say you recommended the Miata. It was in the original post, so all I'm saying is that if the only knock against the twins is the sound, it could be alleviated by 1) taking out the intake, which helps, and 2) if insufficient, do some sound deadening if the rest of the package of the car works.
You obviously didn't like the BRZ enough to keep it - great, I hope you're enjoying the 1 series better. Not sure why my suggestion was so controversial to argue over, especially if you didn't personally do the modification to see the impact on your car.
Hi All,
You guys are great! Thanks for all the input and suggestions. Very helpful and I appreciate it. Sounds like I need (get to :-) go test drive a few more cars...one's you've mentioned that intrigue me are:
C6 (ok...I will try it)
128/135 (when these first came out...I said to myself...I will own one of those one day)
Z4 (which one? I know they changed a lot over the years...have never driven one. Coupe? Years? Versions?)
Mini JCW (actually I have a friend who got one a year or so ago...and loves using it for long tours...in addition to back road fun and track days...I have never driven it).
GTI (Duh...I should of thought of this...thanks!)
2017 Civic Si with Hondata (I am partial to Honda's/Acuras...my wife has the above mentioned TL Type S). After the flash apparently it has 240ish HP and 270ish Torque...and a real LSD. A lot different than my old VTEC 2000Si, 2001 Integra, or 2007 Si. Would this new torquier model be a better choice or how would it compare to the Focus ST?
WRX - I always thought these were crude/loud/etc...but only thoughts...never have ridden or driven one. Sounds like it is worth the experience to explore. I did like the version that came out in roughly 2011? The sedan?
Focus ST - Still on the list
Please keep the thoughts coming if you have them.
As an example of what my goals for the car are....today my wife wants to go to a little shopping/strolling town about 2 hours north.... We can take the new RDX and cruise the freeway in comfort...but...there are also fun backroads mixed with the freeway that would give us both something to look forward to :-). This coming weekend there is an autocross that would also be fun...
Thanks again!
Colebob
I should've mentioned the WRX. I had a '12, and apart from doing what it says on the tin MPG-wise, it was a great road trip car, in addition to being fun.
Probably more GT than sports car. I never got around to taking mine to an autocross, but I liked the steering feel and found it to be fun to drive and a comfy cruiser. My wife found it a bit on the firm side. It can't have been much firmer than the base Mini we have now; maybe the Mini seats suit her better. The only real driving dynamic thing I didn't like is that in around-town stuff I always felt like an opportunity for a quick jab of throttle came and went while waiting for the turbo. Based on the number of times I've mentioned it here, I'll probably be haunted to my grave by the possibility that it was an aftermarket tune from awesomeness...
Oh...I should of also included in my last post the 13-15 Club Miata PRHT.
Thanks Ransom re the WRX. I totally forgot about that car too. Hearing it could make a good GT car (as well as a good autocrosser/back roads car) has me wanting to go test drive one soon. I am sure a mild tune and some suspension tuning (both things I enjoy doing to cars) might make it a good contender. Also...depending on level of quietness for the GT part (as opposed to the backroads fun part)...sound deadening as others have mention could work too.
Colebob
I was at a bit higher price point than you, but was looking at a Cayman. However, for what you want, you may also look at a Boxster/Boxster S, the issues seems to be pretty well known, I believe the top is multi-layered to quiet things down. They are decently competitive at autox and if you buy right, in your price range.
I am looking with a somewhat similar set of criteria, except I have a little one so 4 doors is a must.
I keep thinking a newer 335i (F30) with the newer N55 and Sport Line package is quite the bargain, considering I can get a bumper to bumper warranty through PenFed to cover it for 5 years or up to 100k miles for an extra $3k. I haven't driven one yet but they seem to feel much faster than their hp/tq claims and I'm sure would do great for GT duty. Plus, it sure seems like something I would take pride in owning. Around me the oldest F30 335i's (2013 I believe) are dropping into the upper teens. Carmax also has some older E90 335i's that had the newer N55 and available bumper to bumper warranty for closer to $15k.
I guess I can chime in on a couple of cars on your potential list. I have an FR-S, SWMBO has a 350z, and my buddy has a '14 WRX hatch...
The 350z is noisier than the FR-S and with the rear strut bar & associated wrapping it has less useable space. It is more powerful, faster, and has higher capabilities than the FR-S but in my opinion it is less fun to drive on the street and less practical for road trips. The 350z was mine for our first 6 months of ownership, but it lost the shine from my perspective and SWMBO decided she wanted to keep it. I've had the FR-S for 3.5 years so far...my future plans include purchase of my buddies WRX when he is ready to sell as a replacement for the FR-S. The WRX is faster, less noisy, and more practical than the FR-S and I'm not getting any younger...
More good info. Lifeisstout...I've always like the concept of a Porsche...same Cobraspd re BMWs...but the practical side of me wonders about excessive repairs/maintenance, etc. Those cars check all the boxes... except cost to own/fix/unknown issues. My lady BMW (e46 330) was a great car...when it worked. But...it seemed every 6 months there was a $1,500 repair...window motor, shock issue, etc...all minor stuff (engine was great)...but frustrating none the less.
If there are truly good warranties or a way to protect that...I'd love to hear!
Secretariata...thanks for the info and summary. Great info and insight. Hmmm...the 2011+ WRX Sedan needs a thorough look and test drive.
Thanks again
Well I know I read through this thread, as someone always seems to have already done a lot of the work for this type of thing. It can at least give you an idea- https://grassrootsmotorsports.com/forum/build-projects-and-project-cars/the-frugal-mechanic-meets-a-porsche-boxster/120457/page1/
In reply to Colebob :
Check out the Easy Street policy, it lists exclusions (as opposed to only listing inclusions, which is worse). We got this for my wife's MB and it paid for itself in one visit! The MB dealer and Route 66 didn't give us any hassles either. Just food for thought. I checked some BMW forums and everybody who had Route 66 seemed to have a good experience, but obviously YMMV.
6th Gen V6 or 2.0t Camaro. I’ve even found a few 2016 V8’s in the very low $20’s range before.
Genesis Coupe, G37 Coupe, Porsche 968 or Cayman, 2-series BMW, ??
irish44j said:Genesis Coupe, G37 Coupe, Porsche 968 or Cayman, 2-series BMW, ??
I feel like Cayman should be substituted with 996 911. 987 Cayman is more of a go cart and the 911 should be further towards the GT car than a Cayman.
Thanks!
I will look into the warranties. I agree the Camaro might fit the bill...but I am just not "into" those...not sure why...great cars...but me... Cayman and 911 are possibilities if warranties are available.
Does anyone have first hand experience with a Hondata upgraded 2017+Civic Si and how it might meet these goals? Seems like it might be a good fit (like the Focus ST)...
Thanks again,
Colebob
Colebob said:Hi All,
You guys are great! Thanks for all the input and suggestions. Very helpful and I appreciate it. Sounds like I need (get to :-) go test drive a few more cars...one's you've mentioned that intrigue me are:
C6 (ok...I will try it)
128/135 (when these first came out...I said to myself...I will own one of those one day)
Z4 (which one? I know they changed a lot over the years...have never driven one. Coupe? Years? Versions?)
Mini JCW (actually I have a friend who got one a year or so ago...and loves using it for long tours...in addition to back road fun and track days...I have never driven it).
GTI (Duh...I should of thought of this...thanks!)
2017 Civic Si with Hondata (I am partial to Honda's/Acuras...my wife has the above mentioned TL Type S). After the flash apparently it has 240ish HP and 270ish Torque...and a real LSD. A lot different than my old VTEC 2000Si, 2001 Integra, or 2007 Si. Would this new torquier model be a better choice or how would it compare to the Focus ST?
WRX - I always thought these were crude/loud/etc...but only thoughts...never have ridden or driven one. Sounds like it is worth the experience to explore. I did like the version that came out in roughly 2011? The sedan?
Focus ST - Still on the list
Please keep the thoughts coming if you have them.
As an example of what my goals for the car are....today my wife wants to go to a little shopping/strolling town about 2 hours north.... We can take the new RDX and cruise the freeway in comfort...but...there are also fun backroads mixed with the freeway that would give us both something to look forward to :-). This coming weekend there is an autocross that would also be fun...
Thanks again!
Colebob
I drive a 2017 JCW as my daily and it's very comfortable and pretty peppy. Good useable power throughout all RPMs, good fuel economy, easy to manuever/park, good handling, and its very quiet inside (the exhaust is a lot louder on the outside than inside thanks to the good sound deadening). The specific seats I have though are supportive too, which may or may not be to your liking on mega long trips.
Maybe it's just me, but I find it difficult to consider a FWD vehicle "GT". They're either high-strung performance editions of small economy cars (that tend to struggle with NVH) or they're so soft that there's no performance pretense (big Lincolns come to mind). A proper GT car should be something that doesn't wear on you to drive or make you feel claustrophobic. It should accelerate/cruise/handle well enough to maintain proper speed, but do it in a fairly relaxed way. BMW made a name for themselves in this niche. A 911 could work well too.
Reviews say that modern Cadillacs have probably surpassed the comparable BMWs in chassis composure/handling. Maybe an ATS would give you the sportiness you seek while remaining composed? It's the same chassis as the modern Camaro, (so performance suspension/brake options abound if stock is deemed to be too soft after awhile) but it's actually smaller than the Camaro and provides better visibility for the driver. Should be able to find nice examples of the 2.0T/manual combo in your budget, in either sedan or coupe bodystyles.
STM317 said:Maybe it's just me, but I find it difficult to consider a FWD vehicle "GT". They're either high-strung performance editions of small economy cars (that tend to struggle with NVH) or they're so soft that there's no performance pretense (big Lincolns come to mind). A proper GT car should be something that doesn't wear on you to drive or make you feel claustrophobic. It should accelerate/cruise/handle well enough to maintain proper speed, but do it in a fairly relaxed way. BMW made a name for themselves in this niche. A 911 could work well too.
Reviews say that modern Cadillacs have probably surpassed the comparable BMWs in chassis composure/handling. Maybe an ATS would give you the sportiness you seek while remaining composed? It's the same chassis as the modern Camaro, (so performance suspension/brake options abound if stock is deemed to be too soft after awhile) but it's actually smaller than the Camaro and provides better visibility for the driver. Should be able to find nice examples of the 2.0T/manual combo in your budget, in either sedan or coupe bodystyles.
Almost every fwd VW sold in last decade is an excellent GT car because they are made to european standards of being able to cruise on the autobahn. They are also quiet even my mk4 TDI jetti with cloth interior and rollup windows was a good GT car, is it as good as my E350 benz? no just because it was more lightweight and didn't have fancy toys for long distance like radar cruise control
SL55 
For pure GT and still surprisingly capable on twistys ( but I would not autocross it and it doesnt have a following) I have never owned/driven a car better at that then my current daily but I feel like these types of cars (5 series, E class etc) are leaning less sporting than the OP desires
CobraSpdRH said:In reply to Colebob :
Check out the Easy Street policy, it lists exclusions (as opposed to only listing inclusions, which is worse). We got this for my wife's MB and it paid for itself in one visit! The MB dealer and Route 66 didn't give us any hassles either. Just food for thought. I checked some BMW forums and everybody who had Route 66 seemed to have a good experience, but obviously YMMV.
No experience with them either, but my local Indy guy says they are a breeze to work with because they understand BMW/Mercedes/Audi come with higher priced parts and labor rates.
Six years into the FRS ownership and more than one 1000 mile day in the saddle ( Sturgis to London Ontario non-stop) I call bullE36 M3 on the not suitable for Hwy use. In MY opinion it is exactly what I want for a long drive. Last thing I need is a mobile couch that puts me to sleep. The FRS is an engaging chassis to drive at any speed,and any road conditions; that is what makes it a good GT.
Is it the fastest car on the road? NO, but it is more than fast enough to get you arrested in any of the divided states of 'murica. If it has a problem passing, I have not run into it. When you hit the twisties, it is a pleasure to be in.
If the real need is for a Touring car, then you need to move into the vehicle weight category over 3500 lbs. You need mass for your ass if you wannabe comfy.
Pete
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