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Hi christina!
Christina rules.
Great article. Sorry about your car. Great advice about crossing your arms and protecting your feet. Hard thing to wrap your head around and try to remember in the blink of an eye. Most people's instinct is to try and save it to the end. Cars can be replaced human body parts or whole bodies can not.
Good advice with the crossing arms/feet thing. I don't think a lot of people are told this kinds of stuff. Honestly, I only knew the hands of the wheel thing.
RyanGreener said:Honestly, I only knew the hands of the wheel thing.
Me too. Great post, overall.
Great post! Crashing sucks (especially when it's your fault, ask me how I know)... Hope you're better soon.
Somewhat related, the strangest crash I saw was at a trackday event. The organizers had set the next group to go out, but for whatever reason, put the head of the line way out of pit lane past the wall. Yup, someone loses it and comes over, sideswiping a bunch of cars. Some people were in their cars, some out, and while no one was hurt, there was a lot of finger pointing. While I get that people were upset, it's totally on each of us to refuse to put ourselves and our cars someplace that's unsafe...
Anyhow, yeah, stuff can happen and it's pretty much always on us, even if we aren't in the car when it happens.
When you say feet in...can you elaborate on best technique? Off the actual pedals but braced against the firewall under the pedals? Maybe the trans tunnel and the dead pedal? or just kind of free floating as best as possible in the foot well? Does one want to pull their feet toward them? For me this would raise my knees which seems like it would increase the chance for injury there?
If one is still on a high grip surface like the road/track where every foot is scrubbing off speed/ energy while braking the decision to release the pedal for impact has to be something you're forever second guessing.....if I had stayed on the brake pedal, would it have made the crash any less sever?
Finally, does any of this apply to driving on the street, or those of us with street/track cars... crossed arms and airbags what's the best practice there?
TGMF said:When you say feet in...can you elaborate on best technique? Off the actual pedals but braced against the firewall under the pedals? Maybe the trans tunnel and the dead pedal? or just kind of free floating as best as possible in the foot well? Does one want to pull their feet toward them? For me this would raise my knees which seems like it would increase the chance for injury there?
If one is still on a high grip surface like the road/track where every foot is scrubbing off speed/ energy while braking the decision to release the pedal for impact has to be something you're forever second guessing.....if I had stayed on the brake pedal, would it have made the crash any less sever?
Finally, does any of this apply to driving on the street, or those of us with street/track cars... crossed arms and airbags what's the best practice there?
I'd do feet up, off the pedals. I wouldn't brace against anything in the footwell area, because you will run into the same issue of energy being transferred through the car to your foot. I've seen people pull their feet towards themselves, kind of like a fetal position as best you can in a car. You bring up a good point about the knees, so check to see how much clearance you have there with the wheel. It could be a good idea to sit in your racecar with all this down time and maybe imagine how a scenario like this could play out. That way if you are ever faced with it, it would be like second nature to pull everything in.
I agree with your second point. My foot was on the brake pedal as I didn't consider the ramifications of the impact, and I was hoping to slow the car down as much as possible. But in the case you know you are hitting the wall and it is worth crossing your arms, the same would apply to your lets/feet. There was less than a second between getting pushed and hitting the wall in my case. While time slows down in your mind, there isn't a lot of time for the car to slow down. I don't think it would have made much of a difference in my case.
Hands off/feet off would apply in a street/track car with airbags. The same energy transfer from your wheel or pedals would occur in an impact. If you hit a point of no return (saving it) then save yourself. The car is meant to protect you.
The only difference is your safety gear setup. Those of you with airbags in street/track cars, I urge you to look into upgrading your safety gear. Safety systems are all meant to work together. If you have airbags and a stock 3 point belt, that whole system works together in an impact as the belt gives a little bit before locking and the airbag deploys to catch you. The other option is to go 5/6 point belts with a Hans, this is the route I recommend. Too often I see track cars with harnesses but no Hans. The system needs all the pieces to work together. A set of harnesses won't keep you any safer if you are in a front impact with no neck restraint. It only takes a 40mph impact to snap your neck in the improper use of safety equipment.
Except for those of us who rally. In which case there are:
1) You made a mistake (by "you" I mean "the driver/codriver combo")
2) Something broke
3) That tree moved from where it used to be
And in rally there is seldom time to pull the hands/feet off before impact, since the line between "point of no return" and "perfect apex" is about 1 foot. No big grassy areas where you can prepare for impact!
Sometimes you get a ditch that saves you from smashing into the tree sideways though. We rode the ditch for 200 feet and popped back out onto the stage. :)
irish44j said:Except for those of us who rally. In which case there are:
1) You made a mistake (by "you" I mean "the driver/codriver combo")
2) Something broke
3) That tree moved from where it used to be
And in rally there is seldom time to pull the hands/feet off before impact, since the line between "point of no return" and "perfect apex" is about 1 foot. No big grassy areas where you can prepare for impact!
Sometimes you get a ditch that saves you from smashing into the tree sideways though. We rode the ditch for 200 feet and popped back out onto the stage. :)
Those damn trees just gotta stop jumping out of nowhere!
That is a really cool photo. Talk about driving on the edge! Rally is wild, I'd love to try it someday.
Very well written article. this is a perfect example of why I never plan to race wheel to wheel: I'm just not willing to accept the risks introduced by other people in road racing. I've seen too many ridiculous videos. I guess that's why I stick to solo racing, where the only person I can blame is myself. I even do all my own car work, so I can't even blame someone else on a mechanical...
I'll stick to autocross, rallycross, time attack, and hillclimbs. Exception is concession karting, if someone wrecks me I still have a car to drive home!
In reply to irish44j :
Don't forget the three grades of rally crash severity!
christinaylam said:irish44j said:Except for those of us who rally. In which case there are:
1) You made a mistake (by "you" I mean "the driver/codriver combo")
2) Something broke
3) That tree moved from where it used to be
And in rally there is seldom time to pull the hands/feet off before impact, since the line between "point of no return" and "perfect apex" is about 1 foot. No big grassy areas where you can prepare for impact!
Sometimes you get a ditch that saves you from smashing into the tree sideways though. We rode the ditch for 200 feet and popped back out onto the stage. :)
Those damn trees just gotta stop jumping out of nowhere!
That is a really cool photo. Talk about driving on the edge! Rally is wild, I'd love to try it someday.
The funnier view is from the inside cam that points toward us. Jim is staring right at the tree as we slide into the ditch and has this goofy smile on his face like he thinks it's funny....
Also not shown: Paul Batman (yes, his real name) in his Subaru that was right behind us slid into the ditch RIGHT behind us, but he popped out faster (thanks AWD) and zoomed by before we could get out lol....
Here's the vid - it's not as exciting as the still makes it look lol....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=etF91h1z4QE&list=PLFiYgc2-iLj83NZRmrRPunWT7U7woffUX
Great write up, it's an all too real part of this sport. Just like professional athletes that get injured, these incidents can have long lasting impacts. I had a less severe crash in the 90s, and even though I had all the safety equipment back then, my back was never right, it's something I've dealt with and reminded of every single day for over 20 years now. Stay safe, stay strong, recover fast!
In reply to RyanGreener :
I don't think they started teaching that until the 90's
Exactly why I stopped track driving. follow my logic:
"If you are willing to risk it all for the glory of winning, you deal with the consequences of losing."
winning is few, losing is the majority. Losing in this case is wrecking. Wrecking is expensive. Expensive means less time driving. Driving is the fun part. Fixing, not so much.
and this friends, is why I quit. Autocross only.
In reply to christinaylam :
Crashing hurts both the ego and physically. Been there done that!! Hope you mend up and can carry on!!! And I completely agree re your sediments about go fund me things. Thank you for taking the lead on that. I wish more people understood that.!!!
Wishing you the best!!!
Dean
In reply to dean1484 :
Thanks Dean! Its a big financial hit as well. I understand why people have a knee jerk reaction of starting a gofundme as a way to get back on track. In the end, it is part of the risk we all take when we sign that waiver. I believe in taking responsiblity for what you sign up for.
Ms. Lam is a class act. I remember when the GoFundMe idea first appeared. She shot that down like a sniper hunting Bin Laden. She knows you wanna play, you gotta be willing to pay.
W2W racing requires a certain level of fearlessness to run at the front. Besides a heavily drained bank account I realized I didn't have that 'killer instinct' it would take to run with the big dawgs. I also wasn't willing to risk the car I'd built to not be destroyed. So I sold it, got an HPDE car and went back to just playing race car driver.
And promptly crashed the new car the first time out. All my fault. If you decide to place your car's tires on a racing surface you'd best be prepared to lose it. Sometimes stuff breaks, sometimes other drivers screw up, sometimes stuff just happens...but often it's just a momentary loss of focus that puts you and your last three years of UPS deliveries into the wall. Not a decision anyone should take lightly.
When someone pulled out of a side road close in front of me leading to my Samurai getting wrecked, when the crash looked inevitable I thought about crossing my arms over my chest but decided to try driving a bit more. Big mistake, that led to months of physiotherapy to take care of muscle pain in my back, and what in hindsight I'm pretty sure was a fractured sternum. I hadn't even heard of taking your legs off the pedals before this article, in that crash the hit was to the passenger corner so my footwell wasn't deformed, but I was both feet in which added a blown brake MC to the list of repairs needed.
Christina - I'm sorry to read about your wreck. I hope you heal quickly and get back on track soon.
That's a great article that provides plenty of food for thought and discussion. In the vein of discussion, not criticism I offer the following pondering.
I've seen plenty of evidence that the "let go of the wheel and grab the belts" technique can avoid injury in a crash, and I've used it myself, but I confesses to some skepticism about taking your feet of the pedals. I get why having your feet braced against the pedals causes injury but I don't know that there's really a good alternative. There's no real foot equivalent to grabbing the belts. If you just pull them back doesn't that just mean that they're going to impact something even harder when the car stops? I know that I've seen legs broken from flailing around when a car rolls. That's a different scenario so maybe it's not relevant. The ideal would probably be to gently rest both feet on the brake pedal since there's sort of a built in crush zone but that seems counter to every instinct and I'm pretty sure I couldn't bring myself to do that.
Crashes are scary, I spun my car at mid Ohio and was 110% sure I was gonna hit the wall, I was braced for impact and the bang never came.
APEowner said:Christina - I'm sorry to read about your wreck. I hope you heal quickly and get back on track soon.
That's a great article that provides plenty of food for thought and discussion. In the vein of discussion, not criticism I offer the following pondering.
I've seen plenty of evidence that the "let go of the wheel and grab the belts" technique can avoid injury in a crash, and I've used it myself, but I confesses to some skepticism about taking your feet of the pedals. I get why having your feet braced against the pedals causes injury but I don't know that there's really a good alternative. There's no real foot equivalent to grabbing the belts. If you just pull them back doesn't that just mean that they're going to impact something even harder when the car stops? I know that I've seen legs broken from flailing around when a car rolls. That's a different scenario so maybe it's not relevant. The ideal would probably be to gently rest both feet on the brake pedal since there's sort of a built in crush zone but that seems counter to every instinct and I'm pretty sure I couldn't bring myself to do that.
This is a great discussion point. The last thing you want to do is cause a major injury (breaking legs) to avoid a smaller one (breaking a foot). I can only speak from my experience which was head on into concrete, where lifting feet off pedals would have saved me 4 months of non weight bearing. In another situation like a rollover, legs flailing in the cockpit could cause more injury if not braced against something.
I think like you said, it will depend on the situation. In a rollover, the car continues to disperse energy as it rolls until it comes to a stop. Having your foot or leg against something may not be a bad idea here since the energy being transfered is continuous. The different directions you are being subjected to could be more dangerous if you let your legs flail.
In a front impact like mine, the car went from 100mph to 0 in a split second. So the energy from the hit is much higher as velocity of the car goes to 0 in an instant. V=ma? Any physics people want to chime in and put some math to this theory?
Yet another thing to think about as you either are about to take a tumble or hit an inanimate object. Time slows down btw when you realize everything is about to go sideways. It is interesting how the mind works in a crisis moment.
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