ditchdigger wrote:Woody wrote: Of course, I'd love to see an STi engine back there...A large part of the allure of a Ferrari is the wonderful noises they make. Despite the performance potential of the STI lump the ghastly whumpwhump noises would just ruin it for me.
Call me what you will.... but i'm a whackjob that vastly prefers the "ghastly whumpwhump" noise over that of an LSx.
tuna55 wrote: Plus, it's just a car. Ferrari, Bugatti, Citation, Yugo, it's just steel and aluminum and various grades of plastics.
You'd be surprised how much steel a Yugo DOESN"T have.
-Les
Ferrari indeed offered automatics... but not in anything they considered a sports car.
I didn't bring up the wonderful noise the Ferrari V8 makes (in part because the car in question was an injected car and is missing the glorious music of 8 barrels of Webers a foot behind your head all climbing towards a crescendo... well you get the picture.) but it's certainly not an inconsequential feature of the car.
A few years back, a buddy offered to trade me his Pantera (with a seriously heated up 351 in it) needing a paint job for my 308GTB. On paper an awesome deal... and performance wise likely close to the LSx swap being discussed here.
I flew down to Florida to do a final drive of the car and close the deal. In the end I couldn't do it... even though his Pantera was everything I had remembered it being (and Lord knows, significantly faster than the 308) it just wasn't the same intense sensory experience the Ferrari is.
Along those lines, I was in Rome a couple of years ago, walking back to the apartment (after a late night party) in the heart of the historic section... narrow streets, etc... you could hear scooters coming from blocks away with the sound bouncing off the ancient buildings.
Suddenly, instead of the sound of a scooter, there was the sound of thunder. The noise was everywhere, reverberating off every building around. I won't say the ground shook, but it sounded like it did. By the time that our brains registered that a car was coming it was there... we jumped to the side just as a newish Ferrari V12 (likely a 599GTB) shot by at about 60mph... likely in 2nd gear and 6000rpm... and just as fast as the noise appeared it was gone. A singular experience I won't soon forget...
it may have been the bottom of the market car for ferrari... but the Dino is rapidly climbing in price and as the remaining 308/328/348s survive.. they too will clim in price.
Personally, a 308/328 is on my bucket list.
It's probably an automatic because it'll probably be used for drag racing.
Great...now I have to add Ferrari to my eBay watch list...thanks to this thread and the fabulous noises in Rome comment.......
In reply to mad_machine:
Just because I said it was a bottom market car doesnt mean I havent lusted over them, too. I used to watch Magnum P.I. with my dad. 
Doesn't much of the Ferrari V8 sound come from the flat-plane crank they use?
Are any available for LSx series engines?
As long as you aren't a purist (witness the XDi ignition over a periodic $1500 iginition tuneup) and are willing to do your own work (a timing belt change is an evening's work... two evenings if you've left the virtually useless AC compressor attached to the engine and building and synching carbs are like building and synching carbs...) a 308 is not a bad bet.
Of course, when you do have to buy Ferrari bits they are eye wateringly expensive... and if that engine goes you're looking at a minimum $10k rebuild... but how is any of that different than the average modern car (or Porsche 928, etc)?
Word to the wise... red GTS's are most likely to have been abused/undermaintained. They are also the most expensive. Nonred GTBs are the least expensive, drive the best by far, and are more likely to have been enthusiast rather than gold chain crowd owned... mid $20's will buy you a nice one. (I paid mid-teens for mine needing paint/interior).
An early carbed 308 is easy to work on, the injected 308's get a lot more complicated and much slower (which is why they are worth the least), and the 308QV cars are a lot better overall (power and reliability) but a lot more compex as well. 328's are the first "modern" Ferrari and are better in every way, but I just didn't get the same thrill out of driving one. Sort of like an M46M3 versus an E30M3.
Bill
Oh, and the 348 began the current longitudinal engine setup... these are the "$5000+ engine out routine services" car... I wouldn't be interested in one in the least...
If you are willing to go with that kind of pain, the next model (355) was far superior...
Bill
A friend and I rented a 348 in Vegas one time, that was one of the best weekends of my life. 
In reply to wcelliot:
You can find good used engines for far less than a rebuild for most cars. Is that true with a Ferrari?
I am very curious to see this take shape.
Hmmm, this old Ferrari has a Chevy engine in it. I've seen it in person and can verify that it's "cool".
The business end...
The new swap is 100% more better than if it had a Northstar, and I would rather change a N* starter in the back of that heap than work on the OE 'rarri mill.
oh, I would definatly be doing some "modifications" to make the car better.. including either megasquirt or some other aftermarket injection with ignition.. drop the air con, and after straightening out the dents, dings, and electrical gremlins.. have lots of fun
Otto_Maddox wrote: In reply to wcelliot: You can find good used engines for far less than a rebuild for most cars. Is that true with a Ferrari?
Not particularly. We're talking low production cars here, most of which are still on the road (or at least not parted out)...
You can sometimes find used engines for under $10k... and "freshly built ones" for slightly more... but with something like this would you really want to take the chance? For about the same money I'll do mine and see it's done right. Or drop that LS1 in there....
Getting a 50k LS1 for $3000 is one sort of bet... that 50k 308 engine could be completely worn out...
The trans is the real issue with the LS1... the Ferrari trans can't take the torque and a ZF makes the project not financially feasible. I can see why they'd consider a cheap, strong, and readily available slushbox.
Bill
I will not lie, I would rock that thing with an Iron Duke and an automatic.
John Brown wrote: I will not lie, I would rock that thing with an Iron Duke and an automatic.
Translation: Someone point me to the people who make that body kit for a Fiero.
93celicaGT2 wrote: Call me what you will.... but i'm a whackjob that vastly prefers the "ghastly whumpwhump" noise over that of an LSx.
I'm with you. That "ghastly whumpwhump" is one of my favorite things about the car. I can hear one start up from across the parking lot an instantly identify it. I <3 flat engines.
skruffy wrote: I'm the one that's always bitching about the hate around here for paddle shifted clutch type gearboxes. I'll definitely agree that anything with a torque converter sucks.
A stock automatic with torque converter might suck, but GM and Ford 9and older Mopar) autoboxes with aftermarket parts in them can be great performacne car/sports car transmissions, especially whehn contemplating an engine swap and hooking up a bizzarro shift linkage/clutch linkage might be a headache (and actually reduce teh fun of operating the end result).
My V8 RX7 had a built up AOD autobox, with a higher stall lockup torque converter, heavy duty clutchpacks, and a B&M shift kit. Shifts were firm and faster than a manual transmission, and they happened exactly when you moved the lever if you wanted to manually choose the gear, and they werw actually perfectly matched when you wanted it to shift for itself.
Plus it was fun to bark the tires into all 4 gears at WOT without having to worry about missing a gear speed shifting.
Oh, and it only saw a drag strip once in it's 5 years with me. Autocrossed all the time (what it was built for). So no, they aren't just for drag racing.
ReverendDexter wrote:John Brown wrote: I will not lie, I would rock that thing with an Iron Duke and an automatic.Translation: Someone point me to the people who make that body kit for a Fiero.
No I am just sick enough to put an Iron Duke in an authentic Ferrari.
CANOE !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
In reply to wcelliot:
Ok, what is your beef with the 928? I have had an '89 928S4 for almost 10 years, and at the same ~3K miles per year I haven't had much more to do than a clutch slave, a compressor, and the timing belt. It's easy to work on if stuff doesn't break (and my valves adjust themselves). Of course, if you get one that wasn't adequately maintained, any car will bite you.
I love the 308 and have never even thought to compare it to a 928 as they are completely different in my mind. One's vice is the other's virtue (e.g. agility vs. power). If only the 928 had a bigger sunroof...Magnum PI would have driven one: http://en.allexperts.com/e/m/ma/magnum,_p.i..htm
Truce?
-Robert
ditchdigger wrote:Woody wrote: Of course, I'd love to see an STi engine back there...A large part of the allure of a Ferrari is the wonderful noises they make. Despite the performance potential of the STI lump the ghastly whumpwhump noises would just ruin it for me.
Have you ever heard an EG33 at 7,500 rpm?
That's what I would stuff in there, it already sounds like a Ferrari.
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