dean1484 wrote: I think I would be asking ford about it and looking at the NTSB and see if filing with them is something that should be done.
I would certainly contact Ford and see what they have to say and what they might be willing to do. I wouldnt hold my breath that it would be much, given the age of the vehicle.
Dean, NHTSA is the government agency you are looking for. This is a probable defect with the vehicle and how it ages. I linked the right pathway to make a complaint.
Wall-e wrote:Son_Of_Toyman wrote: It was the weirdest thing ever. Surprised the heck out of me.They should fill them with confetti to make it a happier surprise.
Takata did. They just thought it would be even funnier to use metal confetti....
On the whole, airbags are life savers. Yes, without a doubt, you must wear a seatbelt. Airbags are designed to be SUPPLEMENTAL restraint systems, not primary. But when used in conjunction with a seatbelt, they are marvelous.
pointofdeparture wrote:RealMiniParker wrote: Airbags are the devil.Not sure if sarcasm, but I sure wouldn't say that about side-impact airbags.
Some sarcasm, some for reals. I can see the benefit of side-impact bags, though.
Duke wrote:RealMiniParker wrote: Airbags are the devil.But... but... [snip] THINK OF THE MORONS WHO WON'T WEAR SEATBELTS!
I am thinking of them. It would be doing the world a favor. 
GSmith wrote:captdownshift wrote: Hakuna TakataWell played, sir. Well played...
Nah, that problem concerns what's in the airbag assembly, not how it's set off.
As an electrical engineer I'd go with a non-airbag steering wheel from here on. The reason is that everything from the ECU (if it's involved), the crash sensor, all connectors, the wire harness, up to the air bag connector is suspect. As was said, replacing just the airbag is like inserting a fresh round in a semiautomatic piston that just self-fired. Other than replacing everything - or REALLY inspecting the entire path - is just asking for it to happen again if it's vibration related.
Though it wasn't mentioned, what happened is NOT an indication of a defective bag assembly - that obviously worked great - the problem is upstream. It's one reason I get bugged at people who say "I had a bad fuse" when the lights go out. No, the fuse went out because there's a short somewhere. Find the problem, don't just reset the timer on the bomb!
Klayfish wrote: /snip On the whole, airbags are life savers. Yes, without a doubt, you must wear a seatbelt. Airbags are designed to be SUPPLEMENTAL restraint systems, not primary. But when used in conjunction with a seatbelt, they are marvelous.
Remember when they came out and were called SRS systems, supplemental restraint systems, they will do more damage without a seatbelt.
I am still happy to have them.
Glad your doing ok son of toyman....
captdownshift wrote: Hakuna Takata
Certainly gives a new meaning to "it means no worries, for the rest of your days"...
java230 wrote:Klayfish wrote: /snip On the whole, airbags are life savers. Yes, without a doubt, you must wear a seatbelt. Airbags are designed to be SUPPLEMENTAL restraint systems, not primary. But when used in conjunction with a seatbelt, they are marvelous.Remember when they came out and were called SRS systems, supplemental restraint systems, they will do more damage without a seatbelt.
They were originally sold to the legislators as seatbelt replacements for people too lazy to put seatbelts on, so the bags were designed to restrain an unbuckled 95% male. This is why airbags used to blow children's heads off.
I'll stop here before I go on a whole rant about Joan Claybrook...
Update from Ford.
They will not replace the airbag. End of discussion.
Interesting.
The service writer says in 28 years of working with Ford, he has never seen a bag deploy like this.
Toyman01 wrote: Update from Ford. They will not replace the airbag. End of discussion. Interesting. The service writer says in 28 years of working with Ford, he has never seen a bag deploy like this.
Then you would think they would want to replace it, but I guess trying to find out where the problem is would be too difficult.
Are you sure they didn't say "we CANNOT replace the airbag"?
We've got a car at work that's in limbo at the moment because the airbag recall can't be completed, because they can't get a replacement part from Takata.
Shawn
Toyman01 wrote: Update from Ford. They will not replace the airbag. End of discussion. Interesting. The service writer says in 28 years of working with Ford, he has never seen a bag deploy like this.
Even a 1997 model van...I would assume the SRS ECU would store an event for AB deployment.
The only time I've heard of this was when my buddy's college kid had it happen in an RSX (side curtain AB deployed.) I went over to have a look. Found some really interesting "airbag deployment scars" on the inside of the rims on one side and all the way down the floorpan. Draw your own conclusions there. ;)
Wow. It seems like you have the making of an awesome lawsuit here, but I have no clue.
Sorry to hear, but glad your kid is relatively OK.
In reply to Trans_Maro:
I think it's a liability issue. If they replace the bag and it deploys again for some unknown reason, all the liability is on them, they don't want that.
I would not want it replaced until you figured out what caused it to deploy. Have you asked the dealer to figure that out? I would seriously consider running this up the corporate ladder further. The dealer does not want to deal with it due to liability (I don't blame them) but Ford Corporate may be very interested in this. If nothing else they may want to try and figure out what it is something like a scuffed wire or something and not a design issue.
It actually really is impressive that there are literately millions of these out in circulation and I have only heard of one or two of these types of events. Statistically you probably have a better chance of getting hit by lightning than having an air bag go off for no reason. (guess on my part)
Apexcarver wrote:dean1484 wrote: I think I would be asking ford about it and looking at the NTSB and see if filing with them is something that should be done.I would certainly contact Ford and see what they have to say and what they might be willing to do. I wouldnt hold my breath that it would be much, given the age of the vehicle. Dean, NHTSA is the government agency you are looking for. This is a probable defect with the vehicle and how it ages. I linked the right pathway to make a complaint.
Thanks!!! I was not sure on that one.
Toyman01 wrote: In reply to Trans_Maro: I think it's a liability issue. If they replace the bag and it deploys again for some unknown reason, all the liability is on them, they don't want that.
Yep, that sounds about right. With a nearly 20 year old truck, I'd bet they wouldn't want to put another airbag in the vehicle without doing a full diagnoses to find out why the old one went off in the first place. A truck that old, with I'd assume a lot of miles, I don't think you'd have much success convincing them to "warranty" it.
dean1484 wrote: I would not want it replaced until you figured out what caused it to deploy. Have you asked the dealer to figure that out? I would seriously consider running this up the corporate ladder further. The dealer does not want to deal with it due to liability (I don't blame them) but Ford Corporate may be very interested in this. If nothing else they may want to try and figure out what it is something like a scuffed wire or something and not a design issue.
This. Whether it is a design flaw (unlikely) or a repair error at some time in the van's life (more likely) they will probably want to know so they can update service procedures or design strategy as necessary.
It actually really is impressive that there are literately millions of these out in circulation and I have only heard of one or two of these types of events. Statistically you probably have a better chance of getting hit by lightning than having an air bag go off for no reason. (guess on my part)
And this. The bag deployment strategies are well done, they err to the side of not going off. As you discover when one deploys at you, they can be quite damaging, so you only want them to go off when that is acceptable injury.
Toyman01 wrote: The service writer says in 28 years of working with Ford, he has never seen a bag deploy like this.
And you believed that?
In reply to dean1484:
Dean, the dealer isn't interested in troublshooting or having anything to do with the airbag system. They won't touch it. Honestly, I can't blame them.
I don't expect them to warranty it, it's a old van with almost 300k on it. I just wanted a price to fix it. My business partner is the usual driver of the van. At this point, he doesn't want the airbag replaced either. He's scared it will go off on him. We will probably buy a used bag to replace it and not plug it in.
I still think you should push this up to Ford corporate. Not for free replacement but so they are aware of it and if they want to take a look at your truck. More of a public service thing. Hell offer to sell it to them for fmv. That way they own it and can do with it as they please.
What I am getting at is this is an extremely rair event. The dealer is sweeping it under the rug for liability reasons and cost. Corporate may want to know about it and thank you for actually helping them.
Yeah, I'm kind of surprised that Ford allows one of their dealers to refuse to work on a Ford vehicle just because they're scared of liability.
I work in the collision repair/insurance industry. The replies in this thread make my head hurt...and not from the airbag deployment.
In 20+ years of looking at wrecked cars and dealing with insurance claims I have only come across ONE out of thousands of cars where an airbag deployed for no reason. It was a Honda Accord. Gal parked it in her garage, shut the door when she got out and the bag went off. No one ever could explain why that happened.
1997 was a long time ago. That airbag system is pretty ancient now. No telling what kind of electrical oddity took place that signaled it to deploy. Expecting a manufacturer to have much concern over any vehicle that old and so far out of warranty is unrealistic. That van has already far exceeded its intended lifespan.
The Takata recall has nothing to do with what happened to the OP.
1st generation airbags (and this is one) weren't the greatest. I was no fan of them either, having come across a few fatalities caused by bag deployment in otherwise mild collisions. Once they altered the deployment rate (2nd gen) they became a useful, if expensive, protection device. I see so few fatalities these days in the aftermath of some really catastrophic wrecks. The things do work but are only most effective when part of the SYSTEM which includes Step One, the seat belt.
This was an unfortunate and scary freak occurrence from a nearly twenty year old electrical device. Replace it with a used steering wheel and move on. Report it to NHSTA if it makes you feel better.
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