alabama hate from detroit

Jamesc2123 wrote:

alfadriver wrote: Tax credits for companies who take profits outside of the US. No loans for companies whoes proftis stay in the US. So we subsidize companies who help take net $$ out, and don't even give loans to ones that help grow US wealth. What's wrong with this picture?

If foreign companies are making profits on their American Investments, they are going to turn that profit around and put it back into more production and more plants in this country. What evidence shows that these companies are somehow "taking their money and running"?

well if they're going to turn that money around and re-invest it there, why did SC give BMW $80 million more to expand their plant? seems like where those incentives are offered, they just turned around and looked for more.

Does the money I pay to buy an F-250 actually stay in the US, or is it a part of the money that also runs Volvo (Swedish), Mazda (Japanese), and buys the CEO's little muli-million dollar getaway on the French Riveria?

Do the parts come from the US?

Are the employees all US citizens? How about their subsidiaries?

Don't they have manufacturing facilites in other countries?

What the heck does that mean, the money stays in the US? I mean no disrespect, but it frankly sounds like crap to me.

SVreX wrote: I'm pretty sure Alabama (or any other Southern state) would be happy to offer tax incentives to any of the big three if they'd like to build a viable plant in the South that is going to employ a bunch of people. Its a break that is available to everyone.

This is my point exactly just in a less sarcastic and better prepared manner.

ignorant wrote: *edit* and those tax breaks are employing my friend in Alabama at a foreign car company. Guess what he just bought. A GMC sierra.

OMG your friend is berkeleying retarded all american vehicles are dogE36 M3 and he'll probably die when it falls apart around him in 7k miles from new!!!111!!!!!!11!!!1

ignorant wrote:

SVreX wrote: I'm pretty sure Alabama (or any other Southern state) would be happy to offer tax incentives to any of the big three if they'd like to build a viable plant in the South that is going to employ a bunch of people. Its a break that is available to everyone.

This is my point exactly just in a less sarcastic and better prepared manner.

Well then I am happy we are able to agree, even though I am so ill-prepared and sarcastic.

AngryCorvair wrote:

ignorant wrote: *edit* and those tax breaks are employing my friend in Alabama at a foreign car company. Guess what he just bought. A GMC sierra.

OMG your friend is berkeleying retarded all american vehicles are dogE36 M3 and he'll probably die when it falls apart around him in 7k miles from new!!!111!!!!!!11!!!1

naa it's a good truck.. It does ping horribly on acceleration if not running 89 octane. Silly 4.8 v8

I think Angry was being sarcastic. I'm a card-carrying smartass, so I know him from the meetings

JeepinMatt wrote: I think Angry was being sarcastic.

Say it isn't so.

IIRC, GM got money from TN when the Saturn plant was built in TN. A lot of things were done well in the beginning, but GM even managed to screw that up.

Yeah, didn't they close it down? Or at least stop building Saturns there?

MitchellC wrote: Yeah, didn't they close it down? Or at least stop building Saturns there?

Yeah...they're building a Chevy crossover there now. ;(. Meanwhile, Nissan, Denso, Toyotetsu, etc are still trucking. They are cutting back, though. A buddy said that denso is making them reuse postit notes now..

I heard that the Nissan plant is a Free Trade Zone. I'm not a UAW supporter, but FTZs can be evil.

racerdave600 wrote: It's common practice to give incentives to companies to relocate to all areas of the country. What they give up in incentives is more than made up for in personal income and sales tax. Most of those plants create a large number of well paying jobs for local people, as well as others brought into the area, it's a win-win situation.

Yep, I was put out of work because Maryland wouldn't give the company that a worked for any tax breaks to build a new facility. But West Virgina would!!

These companies have been playing the states against each other. The companies win, the people of both states lose. It's micro economics game theory.

In reply to alfadriver:

The tax breaks are repaid. They are repaid by workers now earning better wages and paying more taxes. Tax cuts often result in higher tax revenues and tax increases often result in lower tax revenues. Ever hear of the Laffer curve?

Business is like electricity, it takes the path of least resistance. Business will be conducted where it can be conducted most efficiently.

Read David Ricardo.

Read Adam Smith's "Wealth of Nations".

If Detroit Dysfunctional Three simply get loans to conduct business as usual with no repurcussions for creditors, management, workers and suppliers, I (someone known as Moparman), vows never to buy another Detroit cars. I will also sell my 99 Neon DSP car, my 89 Shelby Dakota, my 84 Charger (soon to be hillclimb car) and I will trade in my 2007 Dakota.

Subaru (built in Indiana) is looking good to me.

This particular debate is starting to bore my generation Y xbox playing lazy ass. That is why I am going to say I love alabama and its people that alabama has more incestious rednecks than the rest of us is a myth. I have encounter redneck white trash form georgia, florida, tennesee, michigan, indiana, and even california. There are rednecks everywhere. P.S. supposedly VW is building a racetrack here in chattanooga hopefully they share it with us.

The South has just as many uneducated and unskilled labor that would be happy to screw in stereo speakers all day for $12+ dollars/hour as the North does. Hell they are prolly even more uneducated then their Northern counterparts, which means they might not demand a raise every year for their ridiculously hard jobs.....

Dr. Hess wrote: Well, on merchant vessels, aftershave to Mobilians is Crown Royal to the rest of the country. Here in Arkansas, I can tell you what comes out of our state: Clintons and rice, but I think the Clintons are worth more now.

Speak of the devil, someone on one of the football forums actually thought that Bill Clinton had the country in a surplus when he left office. I find it hard to believe that so many people believe that. He simply kept this country from going further into debt.

$12/hr is $25k a year at 40 hours per week. While that's not going to get anyone rich, it's probably more than the fast food joint pays. And it's still better than not working at all.

DirtyBird222 wrote: The South has just as many uneducated and unskilled labor that would be happy to screw in stereo speakers all day for $12+ dollars/hour as the North does. Hell they are prolly even more uneducated then their Northern counterparts, which means they might not demand a raise every year for their ridiculously hard jobs.....

I have met uneducated idiots from everywhere.

byron12 wrote:

DirtyBird222 wrote: The South has just as many uneducated and unskilled labor that would be happy to screw in stereo speakers all day for $12+ dollars/hour as the North does. Hell they are prolly even more uneducated then their Northern counterparts, which means they might not demand a raise every year for their ridiculously hard jobs.....

I have met uneducated idiots from everywhere.

Speaking as a born NYer living for 17 years in NC, I can say this is the smartest thing said in this thread. Do I like it down here? I'm still here.

[stomps hard on toes] Yeah there are uneducated idiots everywhere. The big difference: the ones up in the Rust Belt joined unions and strongarmed the car companies to pay way more than they were worth which when combined with their crappy mangement style put the Big 3 where they are now. [/stomps hard on toes]

carguy123 wrote: Just further proof the War of Northern Aggression isn't over.

Silly American, it's "The war amongst her Majesty's former Colonies."

$12 and hour? Are you kidding me.....the UAW here is atleast 3x that, to start! I agree that a line worker thats screws in a speaker should be paid that much an hour.

Who wants to break the all mighty Unions that has gotten us into this issue?

I wouldn't say that the unions got us into this mess. While they have certainly helped push it along, I'd place the blame on the total incompetent management first.

Not to come out as a pro-union sympathizer, but you have to remember the context of the beginning of the unions. The union I was in, a Merchant Sailor union, was started in the 1930's to improve the working conditions of the sailors. Conditions were so bad on the ships at that time, that the companies would barely feed the sailors. A guy I knew said that the shipping company only supplied cow tongues and ox tails, and every meal was either cow tongue or ox tails. They wondered what happened to the rest of the cow. They striked and people died, quite a few, over having canned milk available for the sailors on the ships. Yes, people died over canned milk. To this day, that milk (now typically Long Life radiated milk in sealed cartons, not canned) is referred to as "Paul Hall Milk" by the sailors, after the man that started the merchant sailor labor unions.

Fast forward 70-80 years and times have changed a lot. Unions are now primarily set up to perpetuate the unions and union officials. There are a lot of issues, and frequently you are better off negotiating with the company directly rather than having the union involved. When the Big 2.5 were making money, spending some of it to pay workers $75/hr to play cards seemed like an acceptable expense. Or $75/hr to put a left speaker in if that vehicle had one, otherwise drink coffee. Whatever. Today that doesn't work. Of course, the worker doesn't get that money either. The worker is lucky to get a third. The union gets a third and the government gets a third. That's the way it works today.