Yes yes I know we should all own an Alfa before we die 
having said that, anybody own a 164 S sedan? 91-95 model?
if so, thoughts? Driving impression?
Advice ? Run away ?
Yes yes I know we should all own an Alfa before we die
having said that, anybody own a 164 S sedan? 91-95 model?
if so, thoughts? Driving impression?
Advice ? Run away ?
I've never driven one but it's on my short list of cars that I'd love to buy.
I always run toward rare orphan cars, which is why Im not allowed to buy things without adult supervision anymore.
So yes, you need one...
In reply to XLR99 (Forum Supporter) :
Good thing is in my life - there are no adults or adult supervision!!!
looking at one - timing belt changed 25k miles ago. Clutch done 10k miles ago. AC doesn't work. It's the sohc one and NOT the dohc one. Asking price $3800. 5 hour drive away
We had an LS for quite a while- which is the 4V version of the 3.0l. One of the times it had extended maintenance, we got a 2V S as a driver to borrow. Nice car to drive- good torque.
The engine is really something. But the chassis, not so much. It's not that it's bad, but it's a heavy FWD car.
And where the engine is a true gem is if you can find a GTV6, and replace the 2.5l with the 3.0l. The S's V6 is essentially the same motor as the Milano Verde's, which has some pretty stout power to start with. Even if you can find a base Milano, and drop this engine in it, it's a real gem.
The only real weakness of the Busso V6 is the cam tensioner. It's prone to fail via an oil leak, which will destroy the belt. Which then leads to pistons hitting valves. But even if that happens, the engine is reabuildable. The S we had did have that problem, and was just waiting for the valve guides being replaced- so it sucked oil pretty badly.
Relative to the rest of the world, this simple 3.0l V6 made almost the same power as the later, special Yamaha in the SHO, and the 4V was even better. Not that I'm biased too much, my I'm pretty conviced that it's a superior motor than the similar era BMWs. If not for the FWD car thanks to the sale of Alfa to Fiat.
Great engine in a body shell shared with SAAB of all people. Too big/ heavy for wrong wheel drive. Buy it to save the engine for a better chassis.
In reply to TurnerX19 :
Don't people put that V6 in X1/9s? How difficult is it to do?
TurnerX19 said:Great engine in a body shell shared with SAAB of all people. Too big/ heavy for wrong wheel drive. Buy it to save the engine for a better chassis.
BAT has them selling in the 6100-9100 range. If I can snag it at 2800, will drive it a month and put it on BAT. That is the plan.
Scheduled to drive up Saturday. Owner is late 70s, retired UCSC professor.
Currently researching the AC repair issue on the car and see what that will cost me to repair.
alfadriver- thanks for the info!
Stampie (FS) said:I've never driven one but it's on my short list of cars that I'd love to buy.
Same. A RWD Milano or GTV may have better balance (rear transaxle), but I really like the looks of the 164. The holy grail is the AWD 164Q, but those sell for big $$.
¯\_(ツ)_/¯ said:In reply to TurnerX19 :
Don't people put that V6 in X1/9s? How difficult is it to do?
I've heard of the idea, but seeing the body mods to fit a K series engine, I don't see it being a viable swap.
Hoondavan said:Stampie (FS) said:I've never driven one but it's on my short list of cars that I'd love to buy.
Same. A RWD Milano or GTV may have better balance (rear transaxle), but I really like the looks of the 164. The holy grail is the AWD 164Q, but those sell for big $$.
The Q is a little better car, but it's not like the jump between a Milano Gold/Platinum to a Verde.
This thread needs pics for reference:
The place for the entire engine/transaxle package is not an X1/9. A Stratos replica was designed to accommodate it though.
I worked at a dealer when they were new. Outdated info today, most likely, but here are some reminisces.
The stock radios were utter garbage, a result of their then-marriage with Chrysler.
The hydraulic belt tensioner could be replaced with a manual one on RWD V6 Alfas. I suspect you could do the same with these.
We replaced some cams and followers under warranty for premature wear.
The HVAC system wasn't brilliant.
Solidly built on the same platform as the Saab 9000 but was a better car in most every way. We sold Saabs also. Unfortunately the lack of brand recognition was the main thing that made the 164 a slow seller. It wasn't a sports car, which is what Alfa buyers were back then. It was more of a fast executive luxury sport sedan trying to compete with BMW. It failed miserably in that market. Probably half of them we sold went to local pizza shop owners, true blood Italian guys.
They held up well for the period I worked there though they were miserable to work on because a rwd engine shoved into a fwd engine bay was as charming as you'd expect.
They had poor resale value then and are really hard to get rid of today.
I've frequently thought of using the motor and transaxle in a middie. But when I consider the age of the motors plus the challenge of mastering an obscure/expensive donor I think about all the cool newer V6s that we have access to now. At the time it was the bomb however. Deserves more credit than it gets.
In reply to ddavidv :
Probably half of them we sold went to local pizza shop owners, true blood Italian guys.
Funny you mention it that way. One of the Easton pizza shops was running one until about 2 years ago. Red, of course.
ddavidv said:
They had poor resale value then and are really hard to get rid of today.
Well said!
TurnerX19 said:The place for the entire engine/transaxle package is not an X1/9. A Stratos replica was designed to accommodate it though.
I have heard of one in a Lancia Scorpion, but it required cutting and shutting the chassis leg to accomadate the Alfa Transaxle. Made for a unique and quick supercar though.
I had the "sister car" to the ALFA 164: The Peugeot 405 Mi16. Both were designed by Pininfarina at the same time. He pretty much copy-pasted them.
To my taste, the Mi16 is a better resolved design. Having driven both, there's no question the Mi16 is in a whole different league. One of the best handling FWD cars ever made. Steering feel and ergonomics are also much better. On top of that, the 164 is more rust-prone and less reliable than the Peugeot.
LanEvo said:I had the "sister car" to the ALFA 164: The Peugeot 405 Mi16. Both were designed by Pininfarina at the same time. He pretty much copy-pasted them.
To my taste, the Mi16 is a better resolved design. Having driven both, there's no question the Mi16 is in a whole different league. One of the best handling FWD cars ever made. Steering feel and ergonomics are also much better. On top of that, the 164 is more rust-prone and less reliable than the Peugeot.
I had a 9000 Turbo. I think it was the best execution of the idea -- massive 5 door hatch . . .
There was a Lancia Thema V8 around Toronto that would come out and play occassionally. That might have been the most ambitious execution of the idea with its Ferrari sourced 32v 8 cylinder . . .
I'd go for it if it were cheap enough. I should have done the same when the Milanos were in the "affordable" range.
Drove the 4 hours to see car. Car owned by a realtor.
Did NOT have records of the things below, which on the phone he said he had full records of:
Car is unregistered, has $800 back DMV fees.
HVAC system, nothing works.
Asking price was $3800. I offered $2500, given he wasted 8 hour drive time for me. Wouldn't budge.
For me the things it needs, I can't flip it and make a profit.
If anybody else wants this 164, be happy to FWD you contact info.
I had a 9000 Turbo. I think it was the best execution of the idea -- massive 5 door hatch . . .
The Saab 9000 was cool. But (having driven one) you can't compare the handling to an Mi16.
In terms of styling, the 164 and 405 are very similar with the creased line running diagonally across the sides etc.
This one has the correct drivetrain layout
In reply to LanEvo :
I don't think we got them in Canada. I didn't realize they were part of the same architecture.
I "thought" the turbo with intercooler was powerful. We've come a long way.
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