Am i criminally insane?

Alright...

I enjoy my MX6, but i can't help but think that the power would be much more useable with the right wheels driven, and i've been putting some thought into the fate of the car after the $2010 Challenge.

In some form or another, it'll remain my DD/playtoy at the same time. I WILL have a backup car to drive during whatever happens.

Here's my options:

1) Leave it pretty much as is, and spend some time making the interior comfy with a nice stereo, and clean up the outside a little. (roller paint job?)

2) Make it handle. Suck it up, leave the body the way it is, and see if this platform REALLY has anything to offer. Get some wider rollers on there, a real suspension setup, and go to town. (Not sure what i'd do with it, but it sounds awesome, right?)

3) Make it actually hook up and go fast. This involves making it RWD. It PROBABLY involves ditching the MX6 itself, and dumping the motor into a B2200 truck. I can probably throw the handling aspect out the window. (lol TRUCK!)

On the subject of the truck... does anyone know how strong the transmissions are on these things, and if the rear end will accept 400+ftlbs of torque running through it? The swap seems fairly easy, especially since it'll be Squirted at that point, and B2200s can be picked up for really cheap. I'm just worried about getting nickeled and dimed constantly breaking drivetrain pieces.

This is purely bench building at this point, and because i'm bored at work. For the moment, i'm focusing on squirting the MXOMG and getting it ready to make the drive to Florida.

The point of this car otherwise, is to give me something to fart around with, and entertain me while i am likely Celica-less for a LONG period of time while it receives the royal treatment and rapes my wallet. The car is fun now, but has nigglings that really bug me. Lack of traction in lower gears, interior is showing it's age, stereo SUCKS. All these things are forgiven on a hard 3rd gear onramp, but the rest of the time, it's really no fun during normal driving, and it's horrendous on backroads.

"Oh man, i remember this turn, i nailed it in the Celica, and it was great, i think i'll try it!!" (leeeaaannnnnn, roll, creak, tires squeal, tires go up in smoke on the exit and car tries to commit suicide on the nearest tree.)

TL DR: 400+ftlbs 4banger turbo motor, what do?

3) sounds like fun, even though I'm not big on trucks myself.

You need to find someone that has a good bandsaw and can weld aluminum. At that point you combine the motor in your MX with the bellhousing of an B2200 and an RX-7 in need of a new motor. I suggest the FC and have idly thought of how neat that would be to have in convertible format. The welding and cutting is to get the throttle plate on the intake plenum pointing the proper direction.

You know what makes more sense though? FE3 from a Sportage since the intake doesn't require hacking and they sound like they're happier to rev.

If you want to improve the handling of you MX you're probably looking at having to brew up your on parts brew. Coil-over collars with I don't know what strut inserts would probably be a great place to start. I honestly never thought my 626 Turbo needed stiffer springs, but it could have used more damping along with stiffer anti-roll bars. Nice +1 wheel / tire upgrade after that and it could have been pretty sweet. In my imagination anyway.

F2T in FC RX7 has been done a few times, and there's even an AE86 corolla floating around that's F2T powered.

I just don't have the skills or the drive to do anything like that. It's pretty straight forward with the B2200.

The FE3 idea is a good one, but not one that i'm ready to try yet. I like the F2T, it's certainly not lacking in power, and this one runs perfectly, and has a brand new assembled head from Mazda on it.

In terms of handling, i'd be using 2nd gen Konis and my existing 2nd gen Megan Racing springs if i went that route. (Already have 2nd gen GR2s) It's just pretty underdamped. I've already got 17x7s on the car, but it's a bit hampered by the 205 width tires. I'd either cram some 225s on the existing wheels, or maybe go to 16x8s and something even wider.

Find a Mazda 929. Wiki says it came with a F2 in the late '80s anyways. Sounds like a simple swap to get your turbo engine in there and there is a chance of a manual with the rear wheel drive package.

RossD wrote: Find a Mazda 929. Wiki says it came with a F2 in the late '80s anyways. Sounds like a simple swap to get your turbo engine in there and there is a chance of a manual with the rear wheel drive package.

Hrmmm.... We only got it with the V6, though. That throws a bit of a wrench in the works.

JDM manual trans?

in 89, the 929 was available with the F2 and a 5 speed manual, according to my old roommate, who was always on the lookout for one. there were only like 300 actually sold though, iirc, so they're pretty uncommon.

also, if you throw the f2t into a b2200, you'll have to cut a hole in the firewall and an access panel in the dash to be able to use the stock head and distributor.

Strizzo wrote: also, if you throw the f2t into a b2200, you'll have to cut a hole in the firewall and an access panel in the dash to be able to use the stock head and distributor.

Hrmmm... i think i remember reading that somewhere.

But you're saying that there were 300 of the F2/Manual 929s in North America? That's a glimmer of hope, at least.

RossD wrote: JDM manual trans?

And mounts, possibly driveshaft i would imagine...

Ditch the B2200 and insert "miata" and I am with you...

Hey man, you should have consulted me about this

And engineering friend of mine worked the math out on a 90 ProbeGT, and.... E36 M3, now I cant remember what the spring rates were. I can tell you that they were astoundingly high, much higher than anything you can get on the market, and the rears were 10% stiffer than the fronts. That's what it took, in calculated theory, to get the car to handle neutrally.

I too have thought about doing a truck, but as was stated earlier, to use the f2t you would need to cut a hole in the firewall for the disty, or you could use MegaSquirtn'Spark and Miata coil packs to go distributorless, or you could get an FE3 out of a Sportage to swap in as those are run on coil packs.

Hmm.... decisions decisions... Back to craigslist.

Well, Megasquirt will have been a reality by that point, so i could do the coil packs.

Do you remember WHY the spring rates had to be so high? There's something really wonky about the way the thing handles, which is interesting considering it's got a VERY similar mac strut setup to the Celica, and reasonably close to the same weight distribution...

Capt Slow wrote: Ditch the B2200 and insert "miata" and I am with you...

Miata with a turbo truck motor?

In reply to Teqnyck:

I'm not a suspension engineer by any stretch of the imagination but I think your friend's work is questionable. Normally the stiffer spring is on the axle with the greater percentage of vehicle weight, and these cars are something like 63% front / 37% rear weight distribution. An extremely stiffly sprung rear axle sounds like it would cause some variant of oversteer during cornering.

The use of a Megasquirt and some distributorless ignition setup (why go Miata when Ford EDIS parts are even more common? Whatever.) solves the dizzy clearance issue with a plug although I can't remember the relationship between the distributor drive end of the cam and the bore the distributor slides into in the head, but that could always be loped off if it's an issue, and then the already mentioned surgery on the intake plenum which I don't think is a huge issue once you find someone that has the gear to weld aluminum. Which shouldn't be impossible to find.

Miata isn't a bad platform for this either but I really like the RX-7 swap myself. This would probably put someone on the hunt for a Turbo II trans and differential anyway if the thing is really twisting out 400lb/ft of torque.

I doubt it's at 400 now. I think. But right now it's also suffering through some rudimentary tuning running 18-20psi on a 50trim. That'll be cleaned up with megasquirt, more fuel, and a bigger turbo by the time i'm ready to take any of the above steps.

I present exhibit A:

That's 27psi on a 50trim, and he's choking himself with that exhaust he's got, it's just a 2.5" cutout. 348whp/459wtq

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2MdRsu5ZA6M

But yes, i would rather an RX7 than a Miata in this case.

pres589 wrote: In reply to Teqnyck: I'm not a suspension engineer by any stretch of the imagination but I think your friend's work is questionable. Normally the stiffer spring is on the axle with the greater percentage of vehicle weight, and these cars are something like 63% front / 37% rear weight distribution. An extremely stiffly sprung rear axle sounds like it would cause some variant of oversteer during cornering.

While I'm not arguing that rear springs 10% higher than the front does sound strange, you have to remember that the front is McStrut so has a 1:1 motion ratio. I've no idea what the rear motion ratio is, but it's very likely that even 10% high spring rates will be a lower wheel rate than the front.

Example, if the front springs are 1,000 lb/in then the wheel rate is also 1,000 lb/in. If the rear has a 2:1 motion rato then 1,100 lb/in spring would have a wheel rate of 550 lb/in. All figure pulled from where the sun don't shine!

The rear of this car uses what Mazda called a Twin Trapezoidal Link, or TTL. Basically it's a Mac strut with a pair of lower longitudinal links as well as a leading link to a forward position. As such I do not think this would be any different than the front since it's, again, a Mac strut and some fancy stuff at the bottom that isn't much different from having a simple lower control arm like the front.

As a motorcyclist I'm aware of some rear suspensions that have a movement ratio as you've described here, but this isn't one of those cases.

Why not cut out the trunk floor and mount the FWD drivetrain in the rear?

Make it an MRX-4?

turboswede wrote: Why not cut out the trunk floor and mount the FWD drivetrain in the rear? Make it an MRX-4?

Waaaaaaaaaaayyyyyyyyyyyyy outside my skill level.

Am i criminally insane?

Well, duh

aussiesmg wrote: Am i criminally insane? Well, duh

Wait. Didn't YOU bring a truck to the $2009 Challenge?!?!? This all sounds right up your alley.

93celicaGT2 wrote:

aussiesmg wrote: Am i criminally insane? Well, duh

Wait. Didn't YOU bring a truck to the $2009 Challenge?!?!? This all sounds right up your alley.

That doesn't make him insane. The fact that he cut up his own trailer to fix said truck makes him insane.

Here are some swap candidate ideas;

http://indianapolis.craigslist.org/cto/1525035324.html Call this guy, don't insult him (whatever that means) and see if you can get the truck sans motor or trans for a lot off of what he's asking.

http://indianapolis.craigslist.org/cto/1544188830.html This time try to get the car for half of what this guy is asking.