Am I wasting my time? (AE86)

I'm going to look at a 1984 Corolla SR5 this weekend. Carbed 4A-C instead of the 4A-GE. No rust, pretty good interior. $3000, which seems high. I'm thinking if I got it I'd want to try dropping in a 20V silver top or blacktop and tts rear end. Never done anything that complicated, but there's no better way to learn right?

Any thoughts? I am annoyed that the drifters are driving the prices of these things up astronomically, but they're not getting any cheaper.

Yeah, the drift tax sucks. Otherwise I may have bought another S13 instead of my FC (which are surprisingly immune to the drift tax, at least here in New England).

Anyways, the car had better be minty-fresh before I would spend $3000 for it. I mean, when this guy says, "no rust," he'd better damn well mean it. Once the tin worm bites into an AE86, it's not coming out easily. That being said, engine swaps nowadays are simpler than rust repair, so if it all checks out, I would seriously consider it. I wouldn't spend more than $2500 on an AE86 unless it was low-mileage and clean enough to eat off of.

That what I'm thinking. If it isn't spotless, at that price I'm not interested.

No way paying that much for an SR, I just bought an 87 GTS last month that is completely rust free for substantially less than that. Deals are still out there you just have to be patient and do some searching.

ahutson03 wrote: No way paying that much for an SR, I just bought an 87 GTS last month that is completely rust free for substantially less than that. Deals are still out there you just have to be patient and do some searching.

Where do you look? Craiglist is hit or miss (difficult to sort through all the other corollas without searching for ae86, which yields few results, and autotrader has almost nothing). Club4ag is ok, but all the cars are spendy and in California.

You should be able to talk him down, that car better have a full mint interior and looks like it's hardly been driven in the last 27 years for $3000.

I'm a stickler when it comes to 80's cars, people are asking for a ridiculous amount for Japanese cars in descent shape. I have a bad feeling that in 20 years they are going to be on Barrett-Jackson going for $100k.

People ask silly-money for their RWD Corollas . I wanted an AE86 for the longest time (still do), but it's very hard to justify the price against, say, an E30.

I agree with the other posters. 3K (less a bit of negotiating) would not be unreasonable for a truly nice example.

$3000 is way too much for an SR5. It would have to be showroom clean.

FYI, an SR5 is an AE85. All USDM AE86's and AE85's have the VIN code AE88.

I have a 85 GT-S coupe.

dogbreath wrote: FYI, an SR5 is an AE85. All USDM AE86's and AE85's have the VIN code AE88. I have a 85 GT-S coupe.

You statement above is incorrect, SR5 models have a vin of AE86, the AE88 is reserved for the twin cam GT-S model. Btw... we are talking about the 3rd thru 6th digit of the 17 digit vin. JT2AE88, or JT2AE86.

There was never an AE85 model in the USA, the AE85 is powered by the 3AC engine... not the larger 4A. All USA versions came with the 4A... come were sohc 4AC, others were the twincam 4AGEC.

LainfordExpress wrote: Any thoughts? I am annoyed that the drifters are driving the prices of these things up astronomically, but they're not getting any cheaper.

Well, just one. RA64. Practically identical, since you have to do a motor swap anyway. And no drift tax.

oldeskewltoy wrote: You statement above is incorrect,

This is what I get for trying to remember something. :(

For that kind of money I would rather have a nice 89-91 RX-7.

$3k is crazy-high for an SR5, even out here in the Bay Area where drift tax runs rampant.

Dori-dori kids will tell you that swapping the 4A-GE in is trivial, but there's a lot to it. The wiring harness is totally different, the fuel tank is different (in-tank fuel pump), the fuel, brake, and clutch lines are different, the bellhousing is different (slave-cylinder is on opposite sides), and the SR5 runs a smaller and significantly weaker rear end (though it will certainly hold up to a stock 4A-GE, especially if you talk to Dwarf Racing and put a spool in it [do NOT weld the SR5 diff - it doesn't have the right spider gear setup, and welded SR5 diffs just love to pop]).

If you go 20V, there's slightly more to it, as the 20V always came in FWD configuration, so the dizzy sticks straight out the back rather than out to the side. You'll either need a dizzy relocation kit or to modify your firewall to make it fit.

I would love nothing more than to have another hachi, but like most here, I just can't get past the prices. About the only deals out here are aborted GTSR5 swaps that were done in a manner that'd make it all but impossible to get them properly smogged and road-legal.

so in other words, all you have to do is change everything about it and it'll be a great car.

belteshazzar wrote: so in other words, all you have to do is change everything about it and it'll be a great car.

I know I'm not the only one who thinks this- that is exactly what an AE86 is. It was neat when it came out that a motor that small could make the same wimpy ass horsepower as larger engines. But, really, it's only like 110 HP and nothing to speak of on the torque side. A bone stock Celica ST with the 22RE truck motor was faster. Look at a Honda S 2000 and the 4AGE starts to look like a period piece. Wonder what it would take to put a 2ZZ into an AE86. That would be neat.

belteshazzar wrote: so in other words, all you have to do is change everything about it and it'll be a great car.

Only if you start with an SR5 and want to GT-S swap it.

Difference between the Celica and Corolla is huge. Sure, the Celica's faster on paper, but the Corolla is better balanced and much lighter.

The Celica is in that no-man's land of bleh. It's too heavy to be a lightweight, but doesn't have enough power or handling to really feel fast. I'm sure that a good motorswap (3S-GE) would really wake it up, but with the R motor? No thank you. Love the looks, not much else.

AE86s come and go around the midwest. One week there will be 9, the next week all you see are WTB ads. Have you installed the craigslist add on for firefox etc that was posted here a week or 2 ago? Its a HUGE help. Anyway, heres what I found within 500 miles of Cinci:

http://chicago.craigslist.org/chc/cto/2310248700.html
http://raleigh.craigslist.org/cto/2306201705.html

not too much, but both seem like realistic prices and decent descriptions or pics. This time last year, I remember there being 6 or 7 really decent options on CL alone within a few hours drive of Cincinnati. now, you gotta drive to Chicago or St Louis etc. Give it a week, there could be a whole different group to look at...

As far as building options, a mildly boosted 20v 4a motor gets you into the early 200s at the wheels. Thats more than enough to make a AE86 fun, but not be a strung out fiend. Its a really capable Chassis. Personally, id rather get a good, clean, stripped out roller, and add in my own kibbles and bits until I have what I want, not a ratty, warmed over version of someone elses unfinished project. And the 2z swap has been done, a lot. Its almost too much for the car, and is pretty heavy, which can ruin the balance. Ive never owned a 2z swapped AE86 ( or any AE86 for that matter), but thats what I read all over the place. Stick to a light 4 banger, build it for about 200 RWHP, and have fun all day, and still get better fuel economy than a vanilla camry.

fast_eddie_72 wrote:

belteshazzar wrote: so in other words, all you have to do is change everything about it and it'll be a great car.

I know I'm not the only one who thinks this- that is exactly what an AE86 is. It was neat when it came out that a motor that small could make the same wimpy ass horsepower as larger engines. But, really, it's only like 110 HP and nothing to speak of on the torque side. A bone stock Celica ST with the 22RE truck motor was faster. Look at a Honda S 2000 and the 4AGE starts to look like a period piece. Wonder what it would take to put a 2ZZ into an AE86. That would be neat.

110 stock @ the flywheel....

but build the little engine and you can get over 240 @ about 10,000 rpm.

I'm running a fully emissions compliant(Oregon) 4AGE and I'm planting over 145 @ the wheels. Albeit the torque is still a bit low(112#/ft also measured @ the wheels)

http://grassrootsmotorsports.com/reader-rides/2130/

How much can you get from a Miata 1.6 (n/a of course )

The beauty of the AE86 is its versitility, its size and nimbleness (not necessarily its peak handling, but its ability to change direction)

Versatility - hatchback can carry a 7" xmas tree... OR your track tires, tools, a cooler, a floor jack, etc., etc., etc.

Size - It has already been mentioned in a different thread how 80s cars are more compact, the AE86 only takes up about 60% of a typical lane of traffic... room to avoid idiots driving larger "sports cars"

Nimbleness - Part of the reason it is so popular(Drift Tax) is because of its nimbleness.

I STRONGLY recommend you avoid a swap... as the Reverend has already pointed out the cost and effort is considerable.

ReverendDexter wrote: Difference between the Celica and Corolla is huge. Sure, the Celica's faster on paper, but the Corolla is better balanced and much lighter.

I had a long post with lots of facts and info. But I think it would be better for me to just finish building my damn car so I can quit trying to make this up and just show people what I'm thinking.

Short version: I don't think the difference is as huge as you think. But there is every possibility that I am wrong. I'm spending a ton of time and money right now to find out.

I've DD'd both.

I lust after another hachi. Not so much the Celicas.

In stock form, I'm right there with you. I'm just getting too caught up in my project. The Celica isn't for everyone.

fast_eddie_72 wrote: In stock form, I'm right there with you. I'm just getting too caught up in my project. The Celica isn't for everyone.

Yeah, like I inferred, drop a proper high-rpm twincam motor in the Celica, and we'd be having a very different conversation.

If I had better luck with motor swaps, a couple grand laying around, and didn't live in California, I'd be importing a BEAMS and swapping it into an RA29.

when i bought an '85 GT-S for $500 it was an incredible car.

Giving $3,000 for a lesser vehicle sounds a lot like buying ramen noodle soup for $5 a package.

over half the reason it was good in the first place was because it was cheap.

ReverendDexter wrote: Yeah, like I inferred, drop a proper high-rpm twincam motor in the Celica, and we'd be having a very different conversation.

Nah. Nice thing about the Celica, you can drop a 2JZ in there!

4cylndrfury wrote: AE86s come and go around the midwest. One week there will be 9, the next week all you see are WTB ads. Have you installed the craigslist add on for firefox etc that was posted here a week or 2 ago? Its a HUGE help. Anyway, heres what I found within 500 miles of Cinci: http://chicago.craigslist.org/chc/cto/2310248700.html http://raleigh.craigslist.org/cto/2306201705.html not too much, but both seem like realistic prices and decent descriptions or pics. This time last year, I remember there being 6 or 7 really decent options on CL alone within a few hours drive of Cincinnati. now, you gotta drive to Chicago or St Louis etc. Give it a week, there could be a whole different group to look at... As far as building options, a mildly boosted 20v 4a motor gets you into the early 200s at the wheels. Thats more than enough to make a AE86 fun, but not be a strung out fiend. Its a really capable Chassis. Personally, id rather get a good, clean, stripped out roller, and add in my own kibbles and bits until I have what I want, not a ratty, warmed over version of someone elses unfinished project. And the 2z swap has been done, a lot. Its almost too much for the car, and is pretty heavy, which can ruin the balance. Ive never owned a 2z swapped AE86 ( or any AE86 for that matter), but thats what I read all over the place. Stick to a light 4 banger, build it for about 200 RWHP, and have fun all day, and still get better fuel economy than a vanilla camry.

The 2zz IS a light 4-banger.

It's like the 4age.... but better.