And this is why I hate mechanics...

In reply to Streetwiseguy :

Haha - fair point! Though they certainly give the appearance(and name) of being a "Complete Auto Care" facility. It wasn't cheap, so I was hoping for good. Instead we just got "fast".

Pete Gossett said:

After a bit of research I discovered Firestone stores are apparently franchise, not corporate owned. So I called & talked to the local manager & sent him pics. Not sure what, if anything(doubtful) will come of it, but he might just be my first of many calls.

Since this behavior often comes from the top down, I wouldn't hold my breath. 

My experience with the "Big Tire Stores" has been universally terrible. I finally figured out that convenience is too expensive when you're overcharged for work done wrong.  There are good, independent shops out there, actively trying to make customers happy.

I tried to use a Firestone twice without knowing any horror stories. They were just opened, available, and had a state inspection license. 

The first trip was just an inspection, surprisingly enough they didn't bend me over the tire changer over bullE36 M3 and passed the car.

The second time I still had my Saturn with the ducked up K member, and they refused to install parts they didn't buy themselves, so I've refused to go back. 

I give everyone a fair try because finding competent workers that are actually more knowledgeable than I am (and let's face it, you've all read my threads, I'm not that berkeleying car knowledgeable) is so difficult. 

That said, I have had some really good experiences with Les Schwab when I lived on the left coast. I only picked a franchise shop because we were moving and they do warranty work at all their locations, which would save me a 3 hour tow if something they fixed broke. It might have taken them 12 hours(and $1400), but they did rebuild the front end of the Tahoe, and I didn't have any problems for the next 50k miles I owned it. 

Not all techs/mechanics are bad, but I personally try to avoid these franchised/chain shops for these very reasons, too many horror stories and inconsistencies.  I do all of my own repairs except mounting/balancing and alignments.  I've had a recent bad experience with a local Mavis where I had the tires re-balanced on a Saturday morning before a planned trip to Baltimore w/ the wife and toddler.  I got the car back and as soon as I got on the hwy the entire car wanted to shake itself apart.  I ended up making an unplanned pit stop at a rest stop off the NJTPK which have Sunoco stations with shops.  They gladly took the car in and rebalanced all tires.   I spoke to the mechanic after it was done and he told me all the wheels had old or no weights on them.  He wrote up a detailed ticket which I paid for (once again) for the balancing.   Car was all good.  That following week when I got back home I went back to Mavis to complain and demanded a refund and show them the receipt, the manager apologized and after a couple of days my cc was refunded.  I've used a few STS shops in the past (prior to the Mavis takeover) and had good outcomes but this one experience really turned me off from Mavis for good.  Not sure how much 'restructuring' was done when this happened.  I'll be using a local indy from now on for tires/balancing.   His shop is far from pretty, but he keeps very busy and seems honest.   I'd support an honest independent any day of the week vs a big box chain shop, just have to find one in your locale.

Tire store chains ARE universally terrible. I worked at a Goodyear store in dayton. It took me 1.5 days on the job to realise I didn't want to work for these ripoff artists. At the end of the 3rd day on the job I loaded my toolbox up and never looked back.

One thing that pushed me toward the door was the manager told me that anytime we pull wheels we also pull drums and check the brakes. No problem, I already do that. So I pull the drum off a car to check brakes. I carry the drum to the trash can to dump the brake dust out. The manager is on me in a flash wanting to know I'm doing. "Dumping out the brake dust." His reply, "We charge for brake cleanings. If they don'tpay you leave that in there." 

Another was a Durango came in for an outer tie rod end. They couldn't afford the alignment, so I'm supposed to get it as close as I can. No problem. Cheapo brand aftermarket part, probably less than $20 shop cost. I had the Durango in and out in 15 minutes. The customers bill, $350.

Seriously, berkeley those guys.

I need to grab a picture of the dipstick on the Rio. I run it 8-9k on oci's with OE only filters and Walmart syntec synthetic. That looks terrible, but we don't do appearance testing on engine oils for a reason. 

edit:  One of my friends worked for a crapstone store for a few months until he found another job. Some of the E36 M3 he can tell you about..... HE had a manager/sales come out on a car that complained he didn't quote enough work. He told the guy come look, the car is clean and doesn't need anything. The manager/sales guy walked out, look at the cv boots, pulled his knife out of his pocket and pocked both inners. "Now it needs CV boots." and walked away. As soon as he was out, he called that in to corporate and the BBB. Nothing came of it but yeah.... no bueno.

Firestone. Oh, let me tell you my thoughts on Firestone....

Back in December of 2008, I bought a brand new 2009 WRX. One of the big deals with these was that they came factory with summer tires so they could boost their magazine performance number bragging rights. The problem: Summer tires in New England in the winter = you're gonna have a bad time. So, I ordered up some all-seasons to replace them. 

I called the local tire store I had been going to for years, which had just been bought by... you guessed it... Firestone, and made an appointment to have them swap the tires over. I asked specifically if they had a machine that could accommodate my wheels and mount low-profile tires without damaging them, and if they did the sticky weights and road force balancing. They said yes to all of the above, so I dropped it off. I picked the car up and drove it home. I went to examine the new meats, and every single wheel looked like it had been dragged across a gravel parking lot behind a pickup truck!  They were gouged up really, really bad and completely FUBAR'ed. 

So, I went back and asked them to explain why the wheels on my car with 600 miles on it were destroyed after I specifically asked if they could do it without destroying them.  They said that they were "fine" and I was overreacting. I demanded to see the manager. The manager came over and said he could "buff that right out". Sorry chief, you can't buff out huge gouges in an aluminum wheel. He then said "I don't know what to tell you, I think they are fine" and that set me right off. I lost my crap in front of all the customers and laid into the guy. He refused to help at first, but when customers started getting upset that this scene that was unfolding in front of them and started leaving, he got a clue. With money walking out the door, he called the regional manager who directed him to refund my money, and he gave me the regional rep's number. 

After fighting with them for months, and after threatening legal action, they ended up buying me new wheels. That $100 mounting job turned into a $1900 expense because of ineptitude and dishonesty. A few months after that, the shop was sold off to a competitor, who I'm sure is just as shady. 

All of this could have been avoided if they were honest in the first place. These tire/repair chains often take on jobs they have no business doing, and are pressured by their corporate offices to do so. I'm just one example, and as evidenced from this thread, it happens WAY more times than it ever should. It's absolutely disgusting. 

Wife briefly worked at a tire chain, she quit over being instructed to lie to customers and add unnecessary things to peoples bills.  All I will say is that its the "national" chain that also has another part other than "tire" in the name.

Stories like these just make me wonder why it's so hard to do right by the customer. You're cutting your own throat for some short term gains. If anyone thinks in this day and age that that info won't get around you're fooling yourself. I've actually taken to writing very detailed reviews on Google for businesses that do right by me as most of the time it's just an outlet for most people to complain about little stupid things.

I have a Jack Williams Tire & Auto near me that does my tire mounting, inspections, and alignments. They've been surprisingly good about letting me do the work when something is wrong on the inspection and whoever did the alignment job on my MS3 set the camber within a hundredth of where I requested and willingly zero'd the toe.

Pete Gossett said:

After a bit of research I discovered Firestone stores are apparently franchise, not corporate owned. So I called & talked to the local manager & sent him pics. Not sure what, if anything(doubtful) will come of it, but he might just be my first of many calls.

Have your friend tell the manager he's contacted local media (local newspapers), and the Better Business Bureau.  Then, also send your images and story to Firestone corporate, and let them know he is going to the media.  Mention that you've also posted on this forum, which is full of "automotive influencers".  (GRM online receives over 4.5 million unique viewers per year)   Tell them the work performed put your friend's car put he and his family in danger, and he is considering legal action.  

Letters can make a difference--- more than emails, and much more than a phone call.   If you have a lawyer friend, see if you can use their letterhead to make a point.   Companies listen if you press the right buttons, and put the fear of bad publicity into them.     

Sorry about the situation---- that manager should be fired for allowing this to happen on his watch.

So, can I ask, how do people find a good shop?

Online reviews are all but useless these days thanks to being able to buy good ratings. 

Wait for something simple to break and shop the shops? Break something on purpose and see if they fix it or try to turn it into something else?

Or just keep trying different places and hoping the one you find you like is still there the next time you need it?

Just seems the handful of independent shops I've found that were any good seemed to go away to be replaced by scam factories or people that can't tell a box wrench from a crows foot. 

A lot of it is at the feet of the managers.

The local Firestone is the Tire Rack installer, and I went to them to get my BMW's new tires put on. They did a great job on time with no pressure to sell anything else. So when we were working on my kid's old '79 Chevy pickup (replaced all the front suspension in the garage and eyeball aligned it) I took it to that manager to have the final alignment done. Again, in and out on time and did a perfect job. While in there waiting I was chewing the fat with the manager about the truck because he was working on a similar truck of his own. So when I've needed to have other work done (warranty replacement of a tire rack tire. Twice and another alignment on our ZHP) they were the go to shop. My friend needed tires and an alignment on his Jetta and I sent him there, and called the manager to let him know he was setting an appointment. My friend wa reluctant to go because he has his own Firestone horror stories. But he went and got treated professionally and they did the work right.

So it IS possible to get quality work at a shop like that. But I had to create a relationship with the manager.

In reply to RevRico :

Beater car servicing. Something you know is cheap to service, have a good idea of what is wrong, and what it'll take to fix it. Have them do a state inspection and see what happens. Repeat as necessary.

RevRico said:

So, can I ask, how do people find a good shop?

The search feature posted by Fueled by caffeine brought up the good shops local to me.  

In reply to RevRico :

I think one of the best things you can do is talk to the local napa. They deal with these guys every single day. They will know who's legit and who's a piece of E36 M3.  

I've never used a Firestone store and I'm glad I haven't.

I can say that around here, the only Firestone stores I know of are never, ever busy when I drive by, the local chain, Les Schwab is always busy.  Always.

America's Tire has treated me well and I only went to them because they were convenient and they carried the tires I wanted as Les Schwab didn't carry them.

When I was having trouble aligning the wife's Highlander due to piss poor aftermarket parts, Les Schwab tried to align it three times for me for no charge and once I trimmed the excess length of the rear tie-rod down, it was successfully aligned and they only charged me once.

On a road trip last year, in my one and only new car, we got a flat thanks to a huge road seam on Hwy 101.  Les Schwab ordered a replacement tire overnight and installed it for us without any damage to the wheel.  We had to pay for it, obviously, but they took care of us and had the local rental agency come by to pick me up to sort out transportation for my wife and infant daughter.

So yeah, I think you could say that a tire shop, like almost anything else lives or dies by their customers and how they are treated.

RevRico said:

So, can I ask, how do people find a good shop?

I asked the local Auto-X and track crowd for recommendations. The first shop did a good job initially before they ran into financial issues, but I'm friends with the guy who used to be their shop foreman and basically just go to the shops that he works at. Not cheap, but he also only hires good people to work with him.

Not just Firestone or whatever chain you choose, but one employee can cast a bad shadow over the whole company.

Remember back in '08 and '09 and Chrysler had the lifetime power train warrantee?

I bought an '08 Ram, still driving it, great truck. Because of the warrantee, I have taken it back to the dealer for every service it's needed. My choice, not required to maintain the warrantee.

BUT, on one service appointment, the service writer (I'll call him "Scooter") came into the waiting room and informed me that my front drive axle and transfer case were overdue for service and I needed to have them do it to avoid voiding the warrantee.

In front of the other half dozen or so customers, I repeated what he had told me, loud enough for all of the to hear, and then explained to him that my truck is 2 wheel drive and doesn't have a front drive axle or transfer case. He got a funny look on his face and walked out without saying another word.

I found my salesman whom I'd bought this truck and 2 previous vehicles from and told him about it. Come to find out he was one of the sales manager's adult, like 30 something year old kid.

When my truck was ready, I was called to the service desk, paid the bill and asked for my keys. He points to the keys on the counter and says right there. Told him they weren't mine, he says yes they are. I repeat it a bit louder and he says they must be in my truck and it's right outside.

I go outside and no truck. Go back in and tell him and he says yes it is. Hard to miss a ~5000lb red truck!

By this time the service manager steps up and tells "Scooter" to take a break, goes and finds my truck and brings it up to the door.

When it was time for the next service, I called, asked for the service manager who remembered me and my previous experience and happily told me that Scooter had moved on. After the following service, I got a letter from the general manager (NOT Scooter's dad)  asking if it had gone better and apologizing for the Scooter incident.

They still get my business, but if Scooter was still there and they hadn't acknowledged the issue, probably not.

Stop bringing it to "mechanics" for cheap work.  Those corporate chain shops have a revolving door for bad mechanics that couldn't make it anywhere else.

Do some research and spend some money at an independent that employs technicians that take pride in their work.  You'll pay a few more dollars, but as you've proven, it's worth it.

RevRico said:

So, can I ask, how do people find a good shop?

Online reviews are all but useless these days thanks to being able to buy good ratings. 

Wait for something simple to break and shop the shops? Break something on purpose and see if they fix it or try to turn it into something else?

Or just keep trying different places and hoping the one you find you like is still there the next time you need it?

Just seems the handful of independent shops I've found that were any good seemed to go away to be replaced by scam factories or people that can't tell a box wrench from a crows foot. 

Talk to other people who drive stuff similar to yours.  Then when you find a decent shop, understand that they are going to charge you a fair price for the job.  A "fair price" is NOT the cheapest price.  It is the price that allows the shop to make a decent living, and have enough cash to provide you warranty without worrying whether they can make rent that month. Paying a fair price for good work allows good shops to stay in business.  Whine about the labour cost, bring your own Rock Auto bottom of the barrel parts, and that good mechanic will soon become a real good commercial refrigeration guy, and you are stuck with "scam factories and people that can't tell a box end wrench from a crows foot".

Pete Gossett said:

In reply to FIYAPOWA :

Awesome - thank you! I'll definitely call Rick next time I need to pass off a job to someone else.

I googled map Long Hair's and D&M auto repair popped up on Bienville blvd  this is him?  Great name  

In reply to NEALSMO :

The problem, as others have mentioned, is finding trustworthy and good independent shops. Online reviews from random people are almost always extremely skewed to one extreme or the other, and being relatively new to the area with few people to ask(and they, like me, typically do their own work) makes it difficult to find anyplace worthwhile. 

pinchvalve said:

To me, Firestone is synonymous with scams, rip offs and hucksters.  I will NEVER take any car to a Firestone store ever.  If I am in an ambulance on my way to the hospital and they need to stop at Firestone to fix something to get me there and save my life, I will still refuse.  Firestone is the worst of all the national chains, and that is saying something because I have never found a national chain worth a crap. 

My wife feels the same way.  When she was young and scraping to get by, a Firestone shop ripped her off major on an auto repair, threatened to put a lean on her car, etc.  I don't think they fixed the problem either.  It was ugly.  So, looks like Firestone shops have not changed in 50 years.

Pete Gossett said:

In reply to NEALSMO :

The problem, as others have mentioned, is finding trustworthy and good independent shops. Online reviews from random people are almost always extremely skewed to one extreme or the other, and being relatively new to the area with few people to ask(and they, like me, typically do their own work) makes it difficult to find anyplace worthwhile. 

I wouldn't bother with online reviews. Not for small indie shops. Like I said, talk to parts stores, or talk to your neighbors that have been in the area a long time if you have any that know enough to know when they are getting hosed. Or just go into a few places and talk to the owner. If its a small operation most likely the owner is there. Ask for a quote on something that you already have an idea on what it should cost and act like you know nothing about cars, see if he tries to snow you. See if you get the vibe that he would be a good person to do business with. Look in the shop and see if the people look like pros or if they are a bunch of 17 year olds and ex cons. And don't shop by price and convenience alone. McDonalds is cheap and convenient, do you go there expecting excellent food and service? And don't be afraid to get a price at the dealership. Sometimes they are competitive, and the people in there know the cars they are working on.