Fiesta ST and put a real diff in it.
Fiesta ST and put a real diff in it.
RacetruckRon said:Fiesta ST and put a real diff in it.
If you gave me a fiesta st and his $30k budget for upgrades and told me to build the best track car I could I'd sell the fiesta and buy a cayman. Or probably any of the other cars he's listed out.
Seriously though, you really should consider a Cayman/Boxster.
In reply to BoxheadTim (Forum Supporter) :
What about a Jaguar F type?
when Ford bought Jaguar they invested billions in new facilities, improved quality and reliability.
At one period they were at the top of the reliability and owner satisfaction ratings.
One member has the older 6 cylinder big sedan and he did extremely well on the autocross event and respectable in the drag race.
I think the V8 is up to 570 horsepower and well it's a Jaguar. Comfort is a given as is performance.
30k is a lot to buy in, what's your budget for consumables, track time, etc?
Low HP NC Miata/FRS/BRZ
Medium HP Cayman/M3/V6 1LE
High HP Corvette/911/M4
Sure, it's high mileage, but that drivetrain is pretty much bulletproof. It's even a kinda cool color. The tan interior isn't my favorite but it's much better looking than the older generations were.
30k is really the max budget, I'm not doing the real estate thing where your agent always shows you properties that are priced at least 20% higher than that 
. I'd like to keep the buy-in at around 20k if possible, for special cars like a Caterham where that isn't a realistic budget I'm willing to go up to 30k. Fortunately the budget for consumables is reasonable, but I'd rather not spend four figures on carbon brake rotors and buy a set of tires every third event. Between Covid and the S2000 "resto", I've again had to skip a few events like just about every year, but I am usually trying to run most of a HPDE/Time Trials season wehn possible.
Re Caymans (I want a Boxster even less than a Cayman) It looks like my budget would only buy a pretty early Cayman S (2006-2008ish) and I've already got visions of IMS bearings and the like. One of the reasons I'm not really interested in another Porsche that pretty much every one I owned has managed to run up bills that I wasn't exactly impressed with. I probably should have learned that lesson about two 911s ago, and TBH I've had more mechanical luck with rotaries than I've had with Porsches.
Jaguar F-Types are way out of my price range, and for that sort of money I'd rather buy an Alfa 4C.
The safety aspect does play a role, and I'm very aware that my FST has better side impact protection than a Caterham, at least one that isn't running a full cage. That's one of the reasons why I've avoided pulling the trigger on one. That would also be one good argument for getting a properly equipped race car.
In reply to BoxheadTim (Forum Supporter) :
What tracks you taking it to?
Tim have you considered maybe a clubmans car like a Mallock? They are a 7 on roids and a fit a variety of engines. I figured if I ever had to go to a single track car I'd go with a clubmans car.
In reply to BoxheadTim (Forum Supporter) :
Haven't all your Porsche's been oil cooled?
Just buy a Cayman S with the IMS already done and run it. It fits all of your goals and is a dream to track. Iron rotor, manual trans ones are best but if you want PDK it will at least stand up to track driving. Seriously the only thing you have to do is loctite the passenger side CV axle bolts.
FRS BRZ seems like the best answer
BoxheadTim (Forum Supporter) said:That said, RX8 with a decent motor + the Bride seat that I won't sell with the S2000 + Öhlins would be a pretty quick recipe for moderate track fun.
Decent motor meaning buy one with a blown-up renesis and swap in a 13b?
What's your concern with "modern BMWs", driving feel or electronics reliability? IMHO the E46 M3 is old school on the former, not as much on the latter.
Javelin (Forum Supporter) said:Just buy a Cayman S with the IMS already done
That's a rare car since the larger IMS in the M97 engines requires you to split the case in order to replace it.
Raze (Forum Supporter) said:In reply to BoxheadTim (Forum Supporter) :
What tracks you taking it to?
Local track is Summit Point, but I'm also hoping to be able to hit VIR, NJMP and some of the other tracks that aren't too far away.
Javelin (Forum Supporter) said:In reply to BoxheadTim (Forum Supporter) :
Haven't all your Porsche's been oil cooled?
Nope, I have had both. I do prefer the aircooled/oil cooled cars and that's what I've got right now, but the one I had before then was a 996.
Just buy a Cayman S with the IMS already done and run it. It fits all of your goals and is a dream to track. Iron rotor, manual trans ones are best but if you want PDK it will at least stand up to track driving. Seriously the only thing you have to do is loctite the passenger side CV axle bolts.
Thing is, I've driven a whole bunch of Boxsters from various generations and I don't like the way they feel in general. 911s - even 996s - talk to me in a way these don't. I haven't driven a Cayman but given that it's a very similar car I don't expect that opinion to change much and for the sort of money these seem to command around here - sorry, no fly & drives right now unless absolutely necessary - I'd rather buy an Elise for similar money.
amg_rx7 (Forum Supporter) said:FRS BRZ seems like the best answer
I think from a cost/benefit standpoint, you're right.
Remind us again why the S2000 is going away? We have a standing joke among my track friends that the S2000 is the perfect car for people that have too much ego for a Miata but can't quite admit that a Corvette is the right car. 
What are you goals on track/what sort of group do you drive with? I loved my Civic on track but nobody else in the advanced groups drove "slow" cars so my track days, and especially Time Trial became me gridding in back, driving three laps alone, and then having incredibly fast cars pass me for the rest of the session. The car was fantastic, the track experience was not.
So who are you going to be driving with and why?
codrus (Forum Supporter) said:BoxheadTim (Forum Supporter) said:That said, RX8 with a decent motor + the Bride seat that I won't sell with the S2000 + Öhlins would be a pretty quick recipe for moderate track fun.
Decent motor meaning buy one with a blown-up renesis and swap in a 13b?
Even a stock one in good shape works for me. It's not a fast car in the grand scheme of things but they're fun, Plus they handle very, very well.
What's your concern with "modern BMWs", driving feel or electronics reliability? IMHO the E46 M3 is old school on the former, not as much on the latter.
I think the newest I've driven was an E46, but in general BMWs haven't grabbed me like some other cars do. There's a very "Germanic" feel to them that doesn't do much for me, even if they're objectively fast cars. And yes, I realise the irony of complaining about the Germanic feel of a car when I'm German myself.
I like "playful" cars that seem to come alive when you let them run free. Prime example of that was my Evo X, and to a certain extent the aircooled 911s plus certain *cough* Mazdas.
Tom1200 said:Tim have you considered maybe a clubmans car like a Mallock? They are a 7 on roids and a fit a variety of engines. I figured if I ever had to go to a single track car I'd go with a clubmans car.
I've only even seen Mallocks in pictures so I could say I'm vaguely aware of them. While intriguing, I think I'll have to check one out in person to establish if they would be of interest or not.
mazdeuce - Seth said:Remind us again why the S2000 is going away? We have a standing joke among my track friends that the S2000 is the perfect car for people that have too much ego for a Miata but can't quite admit that a Corvette is the right car.
It's a combination of things - to make it a more usable track car I would have to modify it in ways that I don't necessary want to modify it but really need to (like adding a proper taller rollbar as even with the new lower seat i don't broomstick very well in it.
The other part is that it's somehow turned into a bit of a mini-resto that highlighted issues with spare parts supplies, so it basically changed purpose and took focus away from the 911. Don't want that.
Last but not least it's just not grabbing me the way I had hoped. It's a cool car, but it's cooler to other people.
What are you goals on track/what sort of group do you drive with? I loved my Civic on track but nobody else in the advanced groups drove "slow" cars so my track days, and especially Time Trial became me gridding in back, driving three laps alone, and then having incredibly fast cars pass me for the rest of the session. The car was fantastic, the track experience was not.
There's that, too. I'm trying to ease back into track driving and the groups around here tend to have faster, shinier, newer, err, Porsches. Ooops. I was planning to run Time Trials sooner rather than later, but right now I have to get signed off properly with local SCCA to even run in their advanced group. I guess that's what happens when you move from a bit of a M. Mouse region to a proper big one.
So who are you going to be driving with and why?
Run Time Trials for a season or two and then figure out if I want to get a competition license again or not. And yes, I realise that that would point me at just getting either a Radical or a built race car.
Oh, and potentially having fun, but I haven't been that good at the "fun on the track" bit for the last few years.
All right. So you need an emotional connection with the car, and it needs a home in SCCA Time Trial. I don't think that leads you toward a full race car at all unless you somehow think you're going to turn into someone who owns cars for a very long time. Buy a car for this use, and have fun.
How many people are running the SSC FRS/BRZ cars in your region? I worry a bit that the limited prep would bore you, but they're decent track cars and the competition is good. It gives you a chance to prep fully to the rules without falling down a rabbit hole of spending money to eek out marginal gains. They also make functional street cars in track trim which is a bonus for testing or just being able to go rip around for fun if the whole world shuts down, for instance.
What about a Mustang... Good aftermarket.. v8 thrust for fun.. good cruiser.. Fits tall people. can easily modify to suit. a 2005+ GT would tick your boxes...
Maybe you're all wrong with your "scalpel" comment.. you seem to go through a lot of them and not make the connection.. try a hammer shaped scalpel.. like this https://trackmustangsonline.com/threads/2008-gt-premium-5-speed-nice.16454/ (I know it's sold, but that's the idea)..
Fueled by Caffeine said:What about a Mustang... Good aftermarket.. v8 thrust for fun.. good cruiser.. Fits tall people. can easily modify to suit. a 2005+ GT would tick your boxes...
If you were in Texas I'd 100% agree with this. Run with NASA in the American Iron classes. The fields are huge, racing is great, cars sound and look awesome. There is also a good path all the way from DE to wheel to wheel in these classes. Watching 25 AI cars do a standing start from the wall at MSR Houston is the best amateur racing experience I've ever had as a spectator.
If you're near summit, and live in WV... then you should be able to get to TT Nationals, and there were a bunch of BrFr86's there last year (based on the results).
if I were in your position, I'd be at least trying out around the block a G35/37 and a Genesis Coupe 3.8... but I'm funny in the head, with horns sticking out. 
VIR is big, it's nice to have at least 200hp there... especially with all the shiny metal it tends to attract.
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