Another FRS update...

Swank Force One wrote:

Bobzilla wrote:

Swank Force One wrote: Oh look it's THIS thread again.

Yes.... shame on owners reporting their real life experience with the car. SHAME on them. SHAME. They should just shut up and drink more koolaid.

Come on Bob, don't be dumb. I'm commenting on those that haven't driven or owned the car panning it for silly reasons. (Price, straight line speed, etc... have all been mentioned in this thread) There's two owners in this thread. Two. I'd bet my last dime that less than 20% of the remaining commentators have driven one.

Guy who did the video Myself Lastsnare racerdare

The above posters seem to have some experience with the car. Myself, I have never had any real issue with the power available. Truth be told, I have no idea why I would need more in a car who's job it is to get me to work and back without bankrupting me at the fuel pump.

What wears on me as an owner, is the sum total of petty stuff that would be insignificant taken on its own.

Regardless, the cars date with the scrapyard is still another 9.42 years away so I will adapt.

When people mention the Miata and this car in the same breath, you need to be aware that in Canada the Miata runs about another 5k more than the FRS by the time it is sitting in your driveway. More on par with he BRZ

PHeller wrote: Toyota (and to some extent Subaru) completely ignored what the fanboys wanted. They wanted a Corolla that was RWD.

What fanboys are you talking about? The ones I'm aware of wanted a new AE86: a lightweight, moderately-to-under-powered, well-balanced, cheap RWD hardtop with a back seat. Now that may be exactly what you meant, but when you say "RWD Corolla", I think a modern Corolla, which other than the 1.8L XRS they made for 2 years, I want nothing to do with.

I'd say the only places Toyota/Subaru failed in that regard was in making the FT86 not a hatchback and that the price is 10% higher than what I think it should have been.

How have the sales figures been on FRiSBReeZ? Last I checked, dealers couldn't keep them on lots; every car coming off a truck had a line of potential buyers and you were lucky to get a test drive. Has that leveled off in the past month or two? (I ask that honestly)

In reply to NOHOME:

I admittedly not driven one yet. I got sit in one and I thought the interior was decent so I was kinda confused by the complaints in the video about it.

4cylndrfury wrote: So the dealer wont honor your discount? Is it a family member discount? SWMBO's grandfather retired from GM after 32 years of employment, so she has access to his discount which is good for 2 generations of his offspring. Im hoping we can use that for a GS...as far as I knew, the dealership wasnt really able to decide they werent going to accept the discount.

Its family member plus supplier, but when I figured it up, it'd only knock between 3-4k off.......A GS isn't a good buy at 30k+, it is a fantastic buy at mid-upper 20's. If the dealer would swing a bit on it, and drop what they wanted down to say, 25-27k since its been there since March of last year, I'd be game.....they won't though.

There is an orange FRS sitting in anderson that nobody has bought.....its been there awhile too.

My comment about the FR-S needing to be under $20,000 wasn't about the competition. I know pretty much every other "fun" car out there is over $20,000.

That's exactly what I'm getting at. I think many of us who say "I'll never buy a new car" could be swayed by a RWD car under or at $20,000, and with the FR-S at $26,000, I'm certainly not going to be lured.

The only non-fwd new vehicles that mildly interests me is the Impreza, because although it is certainly not fast, it's practical, AWD, and gets good MPG, and you can probably squeak one out the door for around $20,000.

Yeah, I'm amazed at the hate here. Except for the overcharging dealers (and not all of them are), it's pretty cheap. It's as fast as a similarly equipped Cooper S, yet it will cost more given equal equipment, on par with the Abarth in price and performance, maybe a touch more in price for the FR-S depending on options, and it's light years away from the less than $20k cars some people throw out.

Nothing wrong with those, but they are not in the same catagory. It's closest competition comes from the Genesis R-Spec, and having driven both, there is not really much of a choice. The FR-S feels like a sports car, the Genesis, which I also like, feels like a faster cheap, econobox. It's controls are not direct and not feel anywhere near as good. It also uses cheaper materials and plastics.

We're going off one guys opinion on the internet and determining it's junk and overpriced. If we go by that theory, every guy here that owns a Miata goes home and changes into a dress.

ReverendDexter wrote: Now that may be exactly what you meant, but when you say "RWD Corolla", I think a modern Corolla, which other than the 1.8L XRS they made for 2 years, I want nothing to do with.

Imagine a RWD Yaris.

Think of its as a modern Starlet.

PHeller wrote:

ReverendDexter wrote: Now that may be exactly what you meant, but when you say "RWD Corolla", I think a modern Corolla, which other than the 1.8L XRS they made for 2 years, I want nothing to do with.

Imagine a RWD Yaris. Think of its as a modern Starlet.

And we think people are bitching about how slow it is NOW....

I got to ride in one at an autocross last weekend. I loved it. Very few new cars I'd really look at hard, but that is one. I've never had really "fast" cars, so it felt pretty fast to me. Bone stock on Hankook autocross rubber, the ballance was pretty impressive thought. It would really rotate nicely, but not scarry (like Tom Celica can be when it starts to rotate). All in all, seemed awesome to me. Love to drive one. I liked how simple it seemed and the basic interior. It felt to me very much like what they billed it to be.

PHeller wrote:

ReverendDexter wrote: Now that may be exactly what you meant, but when you say "RWD Corolla", I think a modern Corolla, which other than the 1.8L XRS they made for 2 years, I want nothing to do with.

Imagine a RWD Yaris. Think of its as a modern Starlet.

That's more than a little bit much. A Starlet had like 60 HP. Don't recall, exactly, but I looked at them before I bought the Celica. They were kind of opposite ends of the spectrum for a Toyota FSP build. Starlet very light but NO power, Celica relatively heavy but twice as much power. Now, no one has ever driven a 22R powered Celica and said "that thing is fast!" But the Starlet is much slower. The new car is much, much faster, or at least felt like it to me.

Of course, I remember when the Mustang GT advertised that it made 200 HP like that was a big deal. So my yard stick may be different. The guy who owned the car I rode in said there was a TRD blower coming soon and he was planning to get it. But I liked it a lot just as it was.

PHeller wrote:

ReverendDexter wrote: Now that may be exactly what you meant, but when you say "RWD Corolla", I think a modern Corolla, which other than the 1.8L XRS they made for 2 years, I want nothing to do with.

Imagine a RWD Yaris. Think of its as a modern Starlet.

Do I have to show this again..........???????

http://gazoo.com/racing/english/grmn/lineup/frhh.asp

cliff's notes version... front engine, rear drive under $20,000

video - http://gazoo.com/movieinfo/app/playmovie.asp?fPT=http://toyota2.pod.tv/flash/cars/132.flv&vID=291&pMode=autoPlay&Rnd=0.3731957605673002

racerdave600 wrote: Yeah, I'm amazed at the hate here. We're going off one guys opinion on the internet and determining it's junk and overpriced. If we go by that theory, every guy here that owns a Miata goes home and changes into a dress.

I am not exactly clear on why when someone picks on any part of the Twins it is declared "Hate"? No-one saying your Momma is ugly. Both the video and the periodic reports I post TRY to stay objective and speak to quantifiable metrics.

On occasion, I do lapse and toss out random stuff like "What the %^&&^$&++# is with the analog speedometer that you can't see or read over in the corner?!!" Or "Why the F__k don't the windows roll up or down today?" Or "I wonder if anyone remembered to feed the fish living in my tailights?" It small touches of retardation gemology like that that make it hard to love the car.

I have a long list of things that annoy me about the car. I certainly don't "hate it". Just passing on information so that those that follow can make a more informed decision. After all, do you really want to base such an expensive purchase on a hormonal desire and a 10 minute test drive? If the concerns expressed do not bother you or hinder your choice, then good, you can rest assured that you are buying the right car. If any of the concerns, or the sum of concerns, is more than you want to sign up for, then once again you are making an informed decision. Not hate, information.

NOHOME wrote:

racerdave600 wrote: Yeah, I'm amazed at the hate here. We're going off one guys opinion on the internet and determining it's junk and overpriced. If we go by that theory, every guy here that owns a Miata goes home and changes into a dress.

I am not exactly clear on why when someone picks on any part of the Twins it is declared "Hate"? No-one saying your Momma is ugly. Both the video and the periodic reports I post TRY to stay objective and speak to quantifiable metrics. On occasion, I do lapse and toss out random stuff like "What the *%^&*&^$&++# is with the analog speedometer that you can't see or read over in the corner?!!" Or "Why the F__k don't the windows roll up or down today?" Or "I wonder if anyone remembered to feed the fish living in my tailights?" It small touches of retardation gemology like that that make it hard to love the car. I have a long list of things that annoy me about the car. I certainly don't "hate it". Just passing on information so that those that follow can make a more informed decision. After all, do you really want to base such an expensive purchase on a hormonal desire and a 10 minute test drive? If the concerns expressed do not bother you or hinder your choice, then good, you can rest assured that you are buying the right car. If any of the concerns, or the sum of concerns, is more than you want to sign up for, then once again you are making an informed decision. Not hate, information.

I don't think he's addressing what you were saying... Just those that haven't experienced the car but already pan it as stupid, pile of crap, slow, overpriced, blah blah blah.

I ignore the people that don't own it. I like to see how cars are holding up out in the "Real".

the Frisbee is not for me. I am not comfortable in the ones I've been in. Maybe it's my odd shape, maybe it's the idea that I want a USABLE back seat (because with me in either front seat, the backs are not usable unless I stuff an amputee in there). I don't like the sightlines, I don't like the feel. No point in driving one if I can't get past sitting in it without disliking the car and finding it uncomfortable.

Not sure why people thought the interior quality of this car would be good when it's garbage on the WRX/STI's. I couldn't believe how crappy the interior on my '06 STI was! Rattle trap after 5k miles, bargain bin plastics, carpets, paint and seats. Nowhere near what I expected out of a $35k car...

NOHOME wrote:

racerdave600 wrote: Yeah, I'm amazed at the hate here. We're going off one guys opinion on the internet and determining it's junk and overpriced. If we go by that theory, every guy here that owns a Miata goes home and changes into a dress.

I am not exactly clear on why when someone picks on any part of the Twins it is declared "Hate"? No-one saying your Momma is ugly. Both the video and the periodic reports I post TRY to stay objective and speak to quantifiable metrics. On occasion, I do lapse and toss out random stuff like "What the *%^&*&^$&++# is with the analog speedometer that you can't see or read over in the corner?!!" Or "Why the F__k don't the windows roll up or down today?" Or "I wonder if anyone remembered to feed the fish living in my tailights?" It small touches of retardation gemology like that that make it hard to love the car. I have a long list of things that annoy me about the car. I certainly don't "hate it". Just passing on information so that those that follow can make a more informed decision. After all, do you really want to base such an expensive purchase on a hormonal desire and a 10 minute test drive? If the concerns expressed do not bother you or hinder your choice, then good, you can rest assured that you are buying the right car. If any of the concerns, or the sum of concerns, is more than you want to sign up for, then once again you are making an informed decision. Not hate, information.

I think you've been very objective. Most owners wouldn't want to critique their own car because they think it would somehow prove they made a mistake. No car is perfect, and everyone's definition of perfect is also different. I feel for you. I tried to do the same thing with my Solstice a few years ago, thinking everyone would appreciate it, and instead got totally blasted for it. You'd think people would like a real world review of a new car, and I think some do, but then the fanboys start mouthing off because there can't be anything wrong with their beloved car.

So... lets have the summary post:

Do I want one of these when the first couple start coming off-lease with 24k on them and some of the issues have been addressed or should I wait for the next revision with a power bump.... or just go long and buy one 10 yrs old and put an LS7 in it?

fast_eddie_72 wrote: Of course, I remember when the Mustang GT advertised that it made 200 HP like that was a big deal. So my yard stick may be different. The guy who owned the car I rode in said there was a TRD blower coming soon and he was planning to get it. But I liked it a lot just as it was.

Unless there is new info out there, that "TRD blower" has been "coming soon" since before the car was introduced. There are a couple of options for supercharging it but I don't think there are any warranty-friendly ones so far.

NOHOME wrote: Based on my experience, I seriously doubt that there was ANY winter testing done on this car. If you live north of the Mason-Dixie line, you should consider it a toy that gets stored in the winter, or don't buy it unless you are prepared to put up with some issues like windows that dont work and transmissions that don't shift into second.

This statement I find interesting.

Back close to 20 years ago, I was working on the Aston Martin DB7, and while we were planning, and going on cold weather trips, we fully knew that Viper's never did those trips. It was reported a few times that they would barely start at 0F, and certainly not at -20F. Whereas we had to, and the DB7 had optional Snow tires.

It's kind of a shock to hear a suggestion that Toyota may not have done significant cold development. (I'm SURE that it was at least worked on some at +20F, since there is a testing requirement there)

This isn't a judge on the car, but more on Toyota/Subaru.

As for the car- sigh. What is being said is not really great- these kinds of things bother owners a lot. To the point of answering "well......" long pause. Before answering "should I get one" question when a friend asks. And that kind of sucks, since good cars like this should be built. And they should be great cars, not just good ones. NOHOME- you don't have a Camry or Impreza do you? A comparison to the main line car would be fascinating.

I sure hope it sells, but as I've posted before, there seems to be a lot of want for the car.

BoxheadTim wrote:

fast_eddie_72 wrote: Of course, I remember when the Mustang GT advertised that it made 200 HP like that was a big deal. So my yard stick may be different. The guy who owned the car I rode in said there was a TRD blower coming soon and he was planning to get it. But I liked it a lot just as it was.

Unless there is new info out there, that "TRD blower" has been "coming soon" since before the car was introduced. There are a couple of options for supercharging it but I don't think there are any warranty-friendly ones so far.

Like the Mazdaspeed turbo version of the Miata NC that was coming out 'next year for sure', 'I've seen it', 'the dealer told me' etc etc from the day it was launched onwards?

Adrian_Thompson wrote: Like the Mazdaspeed turbo version of the Miata NC that was coming out 'next year for sure', 'I've seen it', 'the dealer told me' etc etc from the day it was launched onwards?

Which is slightly better than the current "Well, we've certainly never seen this happen before" issue I've heard from no less than 6 Ford engineers over the years.....then again, 3 of those occasions came from the Gen 3 sho cam failure fiasco.......that was said, despite their test mules having "fixed" cams.

Even with that type of thing, I'm still a ford owner.

What I read:

It isn't perfect.

Part of the problem is that it is a RWD economy car that looks fast. And RWD = Sports car, right? So it should be fast in a strait line, right?

Bad in snow? Erm... tires.

The biggest real issue seems to be fit and finish. Low-ish quality interior. Squeeks and rattles. Parts not working as well as you'd like when subjecting them to prolonged real world situations. Sounds to me like it is new car teething issues. Even if I bring myself to buy a new car, I don't think I could bring myself to buy one in the first couple years of production before those kinks have been worked out.

Adrian_Thompson wrote:

BoxheadTim wrote:

fast_eddie_72 wrote: Of course, I remember when the Mustang GT advertised that it made 200 HP like that was a big deal. So my yard stick may be different. The guy who owned the car I rode in said there was a TRD blower coming soon and he was planning to get it. But I liked it a lot just as it was.

Unless there is new info out there, that "TRD blower" has been "coming soon" since before the car was introduced. There are a couple of options for supercharging it but I don't think there are any warranty-friendly ones so far.

Like the Mazdaspeed turbo version of the Miata NC that was coming out 'next year for sure', 'I've seen it', 'the dealer told me' etc etc from the day it was launched onwards?

Well, could be, and I know they didn't make the engine, but you do have to admit, TRD have been pretty good about producing blowers. Wouldn't be a problem for me. I like slow cars.

If they start looking like they work in C Stock, I may be more tempted in a couple of years.

Giant Purple Snorklewacker wrote: So... lets have the summary post: Do I want one of these when the first couple start coming off-lease with 24k on them and some of the issues have been addressed or should I wait for the next revision with a power bump.... or just go long and buy one 10 yrs old and put an LS7 in it?

I would meet you in the middle...Wait for the last year of the current iteration. There are some major adjustments in the window and chassis department before this car is ready for use as an all year car in winter conditions.

As long as you don't need to drag race people, I expect that a few of the issues will be sorted. Say a 2015 model would be the way to go.

You are aware that there is now a kit available to do the LSX swap right? I figure that in 3 years the cars will be worth about 10k and a finished conversion should run about the cost of a new car. If you can find one with a dead engine, even better. This could be as good a swap fodder as the Miata since they are both overachieving chassis in search of excess power.