Another Noob Rallycross Tire Thread

Yes yes snows/winter tires are the way to go but my years of roundy round dirt tracking tell me Mastercraft Avengers, Cooper Cobras and BFG TA's can all work well in the dirt. 

I plan on running my 2012 Fiat 500 sport (101hp) at some rally cross event in stock fwd this season (if we ever get back to racing) and while none of those tires I listed come in sizes really usable for my ride I found this bad boy.

Tornel Dirrecional and they are dirt cheap....daily driver/low hp rally cross tire ?

I wish their Deportiva model came in sizes I could us

Compound is more important than how tread looks. Even in dirt. Even in loose dirt. That's why snow tires work. They're soft and sticky. Having said that, those will work. Anything will work because rallycross is awesome and fun no matter what. 

What kind of surfaces are you rallycrossing on? You're right that all seasons are a better choice for super hard packed dirt like a dirt oval (snows work reasonably well but get chewed up super quickly...don't even think about trying real rally tires) but unless you're rallycrossing on a dirt oval chances are the surface is loose enough that snow tires are a better choice. That said, it's getting hard to find snow tires with good rallycross tread patterns these days. The tire you showed looks decent, they would probably be good enough to be fun and reasonably fast on most surfaces and conditions, and maybe better suited to street use as well.

mazdeuce - Seth said:

Compound is more important than how tread looks. Even in dirt. Even in loose dirt. That's why snow tires work. They're soft and sticky. Having said that, those will work. Anything will work because rallycross is awesome and fun no matter what. 

 

Everything he said and more of it.

One of the most amazing experiences I have had on dirt was riding in a 924S that was shod with Hoosier A6s.

Dirt track is packed....rallycross is typically loose. If there was a silver bullet for street tires *not* a snow tire, people would be using it, but all the top (and bottom) stock-class drivers run snows because they're the best at pretty much any surface unless you get some sun-baked rock-hard clay (and even then, the snows are probably better). 

As dirt-cheap as Altimax Arctics are, my recommendation would be to just get those and don't overthink it. People who have been doing this for many years have done all the testing for you :)

irish44j (Forum Supporter) said:

Dirt track is packed....rallycross is typically loose. If there was a silver bullet for street tires *not* a snow tire, people would be using it, but all the top (and bottom) stock-class drivers run snows because they're the best at pretty much any surface unless you get some sun-baked rock-hard clay

TO his point, people swap tires at Lone Star rallycross for the afteroon and it works. usually snows to start the day and then 200tw as the day goes on and the dirt starts to pack down. 

so if you're going to buy one set, buy snows.. if you can have multiple sets.. have multiple sets once you figure out the venues you run at. 
 

Jeff Shaffer said:

I plan on running my 2012 Fiat 500

  Careful.

+1 to snows, and possibly a ST* tire if you get a hard packed surface.  The reason the tires you mentioned in your first post are roundy-round choices are becaue most of those racing bodies exclude tires ST* tires.

Load raiting is a decent indicator for sidewall stiffness.  You'll want a good stiff sidewall which some cheaper snows can really lack.  Also you'll want a little taller tire, they take side impacts (ruts) better. 

spacecadet (Forum Supporter) said:

irish44j (Forum Supporter) said:

Dirt track is packed....rallycross is typically loose. If there was a silver bullet for street tires *not* a snow tire, people would be using it, but all the top (and bottom) stock-class drivers run snows because they're the best at pretty much any surface unless you get some sun-baked rock-hard clay

TO his point, people swap tires at Lone Star rallycross for the afteroon and it works. usually snows to start the day and then 200tw as the day goes on and the dirt starts to pack down. 

so if you're going to buy one set, buy snows.. if you can have multiple sets.. have multiple sets once you figure out the venues you run at. 
 

We do the same at Summit Point at some summer events, where the clay gets so baked all the braking zones are black with rubber. That said, even going to a H/P tire in those conditions doesn't really seem to gain any advantage, IMO. I made the switch to star specs for a 95 degree afternoon and promptly lost my lead to another e30 that just stayed on his gravels (which really have less traction than snows on hardpack stuff). 

But yeah, Altimax Arctics ARE the silver bullet that do well in pretty much any condition. Even some of our MR cars (including me) will use them on occasion in place of dedicated rally/rallycross/grasstrack tires, depending on surface. The only real downside is that they wear quickly in hot/hard conditions. 

79rex said:

Load raiting is a decent indicator for sidewall stiffness.  You'll want a good stiff sidewall which some cheaper snows can really lack.  Also you'll want a little taller tire, they take side impacts (ruts) better. 

Soft sidewalls help against debeading too. Of course there's a limit where too soft and the car just won't turn (why most A/T tires suck for rallycross). But generally speaking the worse the tire drives on the street the better it is for rallycross, which is annoying if you're looking for one set of tires that serves both purposes.

In reply to dps214 :

A/T tires suck because of the compound, not the carcass.

If you want grip, you need compound.  The only time that doesn't matter is when it is so sloppy that you could do a faster time by getting out and running instead.

I stand by my first response in this thread., with emphasis on this:

Anything will work because rallycross is awesome and fun no matter what. 

 

In reply to Jeff Shaffer :

See if Nokian WRG3s or WRG4s are available in the size you need. Stiffer sidewall then most snows, happier when it gets hotter, the 4s are and still carries the snow rating. 

The vredestein quadtrac5 should perform well, but I'm yet to get a hold of a set to compare to the nokians on dirt. 

Over a year later I finally rally crossed the Fiat running some older cooper weather masters and I had a blast. A little sketch driving home in 100+ degree heat on the freeway with snow tires but I survived 

Cooper weather masters turning up some dirt

In my part of the county all of the fastest cars are on 200 TW autoX rubber for Rallycross.  I beat a much lighter car on 200 TW rubber for the first time ever this past weekend on 240 TW tires.  I've only rallycrossed on the new tires 3 times, and 3 times on old A/S tires.  The tires made a big difference in the way the car behaves.  It's like a totally different car.  It went from gross understeer to far more neutral just with a tire swap.

I tested those older style Cooper winter tires against admittedly well aged Michelin rally tires and found no appreciable difference in times one way or the other, on silty dry dirt (Tulsa).

It's a shame they don't make them anymore.

I found them perfectly fine to drive in the summer, and they don't have massively rapid wear like Blizzaks do.  (But Blizzaks make the most amusing noises when you corner hard!)

If you want sketch, drive on rally gravels in the winter.  It's a lot like driving on UHP summer tires after they glass over from cold, but with less grip.

In reply to Pete. (l33t FS) :

I got lucky and found this set new never mounted for $80 on facebook market place..not a high demand for snows in southern california. The guy I bought them from thought I was nuts making a 3hr round trip drive at 10pm at night but I had to get them.