Another spend my money thread.... (Miata Shocks)

Ok, so this week I have picked up some Racing Beat springs and some Ground Control stiff linear bump stops. I have all polyurethane bushings. Sway bars are stock for now but will be upgraded by the end of the year.

Car is a fun weekend car and is moving more and more to auto-x.

I have a $400 budget for shocks and will probably be ordering from Tire Rack.

Question is this.... Do I get the old stand-by in Bilsteins at $93 ea? Or what about KYB AGX's which are on sale also at $93 ea? Lastly what's the verdict on the new Koni STR-T at $75 ea?

I cannot swing Koni Yellow's so that's not a option and I think that I can get a better shock than Illuminas at a better price....

WWGRMD?

You should ask Mr. Joshua about motorcycle shocks as a way to do cheap coilovers. Staggering results at minimal prices.

STrTs are essentially Sports set on soft. More often than not, that's not a bad choice and should be easily able to handle the RB springs. Bilsteins are not bad either....I'd go for either of those.

When I bought my KYB AGX's several years ago they were much cheaper than $93 a pop on ebay. Motorcycle shocks are a fairly easy install on the rear (new bushings), but quite a bit more involved on the front.

I've had AGX's on my 96 and they've been great...though I'd love a set of FM Afco's someday!

I'd rate the AGX at the bottom of the heap. Honestly, I'd go with the Illumina - or, if you really have to buy from TR, the Bilstein. I think Konis work best with stock springs, but the RB springs are pretty soft. You'll probably give those bumpstops a good workout.

Of course, if it were me, I would have just ordered a Flyin' Miata Stage 1 suspension kit. Better springs, same bumpstops, better shocks

Keith wrote: I'd rate the AGX at the bottom of the heap. Honestly, I'd go with the Illumina - or, if you really have to buy from TR, the Bilstein. I think Konis work best with stock springs, but the RB springs are pretty soft. You'll probably give those bumpstops a good workout. Of course, if it were me, I would have just ordered a Flyin' Miata Stage 1 suspension kit. Better springs, same bumpstops, better shocks

If he were you, he would probably get a pretty good employee discount

Joey

Follow up question ...not to thread jack but I have a similar question about my recently purchased pro-kit springs....

How do the racing beat spring compare to the Pro-kits? (and the FM's too)

Basicly ... What shocks go best with which springs?

littleturquoiseb wrote: Follow up question ...not to thread jack but I have a similar question about my recently purchased pro-kit springs.... How do the racing beat spring compare to the Pro-kits? (and the FM's too) Basicly ... What shocks go best with which springs?

I don't have any direct Miata experience yet, but i will comment on the Pro-kits.

Don't even bother. They are possibly the worst-performing aftermarket spring i've ever encountered. I've unfortunately had them on two cars that i've purchased, and i cannot STAND them. They don't lower enough to do anything about the center of gravity, and they almost feel squishier than stock. They're worthless.

On the Escort, their only redeeming quality was that i sold them for $50, recouping that money off the $140 shipped i spent on some VERY nice Megan Racing springs. The Megans ride better, are eleventy billion times stiffer, and lowered enough to actually get some negative camber on the car so i'm not wearing the OUTSIDE of the tires anymore.

That being said, in the instance of the Miata, that may all be different, but i've never had any positive experiences with them on cars that i've owned, or cars that i've ridden/driven with them installed.

+1 I wish you had let me know you were doing that Jeff, I'd have talked you out of it.

I'm done trying out different shocks.

The only time I won't buy Bilstein is when they don't have an app for my car.

My Miata came with Agx's from the previous owner. I put on a set of used Bilstiens I found a great deal on. Between the two, the Bilstien is better in about every subjective way, ride, handling, consistency, durability etc.

/\/\/\/\/\/\/\

see what I'm sayin

Bilsteins work very well for me lately, and they leave the door open for revalving later. I like the higher end Konis too, but for the budget it's hard to beat Bilsteins IMHO.

I've go the FM stage 1 kit and love it. Works on the track and street really well.

Okay so I took everybody's advice and comments and ended up taking the cheap route and bought the Koni's based on Per's comments and some stuff I've read on the Hon-duh boards. I hope I don't regret getting these over the Bilsteins but I now have enough left over to get some Carbotech's for the front now (well, almost.....) I'll let everybody now how these go... I would have loved to get a FM set-up but I only had a $1000 upgrade "allowance" from the wife and needed a roll bar and some other odds and ends also. I will only have $400 into my suspension so I still have some cash to play with. I would also liked to do a budget coil-over set but I'm still trying to stay in my prepared class and coil-overs would have bumped me up into modified, not ready to hang in that class yet. Thanks again for all the insight....

I loved the pro kit on my DSM (paired with agx's ... obviously very diffrent car) Luckily the set for the Miata were just about free, so If I don't like them I'll take them back out!

I liked the Eibach Pro-Kit springs on various Saturns (two of mine plus the $2004 Challenge car) for street use. Nice improvement on handling, but not so stiff they can't soak up the bumps. For serious autox or track use, you can do much better. The thing with the Saturn is my choices were either the Eibachs or H&R Sports, and that was it (there are a couple of coilover kits available now). Neither of them really stiffened the car up enough for autocross.

Per, thanks for the positive review on the Koni STrTs. I've had those in mind as a budget option for my own Miata, as my previous one came with Koni Sports and I liked them. I'd miss being able to stiffen them up for autocross, but it would be a nice improvement over my worn out stock shocks, and I usually ran mine full soft on the street anyway. I've read that the Bilsteins aren't such a good match for stock springs, but the Konis work fine.

Keith wrote: Of course, if it were me, I would have just ordered a Flyin' Miata Stage 1 suspension kit. Better springs, same bumpstops, better shocks

That was the advice given to me by Robi Fuller of RobiSpec. And he's one of the best suspension guys in the country.

Dang, too slow.

I was going to suggest getting the Billstein Sports. They are NB-only, but you could get different tophats and be able to use them.

The sports cost the same as the HDs, but are valved more aggressively and have shorter bodies, which allows for more travel on a lowered car and reduces semi-sprung mass.

I was planning to go with those and GC coilovers for my Miata before I decided to just buy a used Spec car.

The Konis will do you well though.

Keith wrote: I'd rate the AGX at the bottom of the heap. Honestly, I'd go with the Illumina - or, if you really have to buy from TR, the Bilstein. I think Konis work best with stock springs, but the RB springs are pretty soft. You'll probably give those bumpstops a good workout. Of course, if it were me, I would have just ordered a Flyin' Miata Stage 1 suspension kit. Better springs, same bumpstops, better shocks

When I bought my FM stage 1 kit it came with AGXs -- my how things have changed.

I like 'em -- although I will admit that the Konis in my fiancee's Miata are a nicer shock.

Yeah, an interesting history there. The Illumina was FM's standard shock in the mid to late 90's and we were happy with it. Then KYB came out with the AGX. It was rumoured to be a copy of a high-zoot GAB, it was cheaper and it had 8 settings instead of 5! At the same time, the awful Tokico HP had reliability problems and this hurt the reputation of the Illumina. So sales of the Illumina dried up to the point that we simply removed it from the catalog.

But we didn't remove them from our cars. A couple got the AGX, but we never removed a set of Illuminas from one of our cars to run the AGX instead. The cars that got the most miles were on Illuminas. When we developed our new generation of springs, we did all the testing on Illuminas.

I'd always preferred the Tokico, so I convinced the boss to put the Tokico back in the catalog so we could sell them side by side. They were still a bit more expensive, but we could let the market decide.

After a while, we realized that nobody at FM would actually recommend the AGX over the Illumina when somebody asked. So we decided to simply drop the AGX, even if it meant raising the price of our suspension kits. It took an amazingly long time to get the paperwork done and the change completed, so we kept selling the AGX as the "default" shock for longer than I would have preferred. We haven't regretted it.

In my opinion, the Miata Konis work really well with stock springs. I'm not as impressed with them on stiffer springs personally, and if I remember correctly they have a shorter stroke in the rear which costs some overall suspension travel. Their altered geometry also make them more prone to coil bind problems when used with components designed for a standard length shock, so that's something that needs to be taken into account.

It's important to note that there's nothing wrong mechanically with the AGX. They seem to be just as reliable as any other aftermarket shock - well, other than the HP. It's just the damping curves aren't well suited to the Miata. They might be spot-on in other applications, that's a generalization you can't make.

Too much information? Probably But there's a peek into the sort of stuff that goes on behind the scenes at aftermarket shops, in case anyone's interested.

I had Tokico Illumina's on my miata and loved them! They were on the stock springs mind you but damn did they change the way that car drove!

I would be very tempted by the Bilstein's as well but only because of the custom valving and ability to be rebuilt.