Another What Car: Cheap Track Rat

I actually had an ex-CHP Mustang when I was 16. I am still amazed that I didn't kill myself in it. Powerful 5.0 V8, horrible suspension from the factory, and pathetic brakes. Heh. Anyway, my neighbor is telling me to MR2 as well. He is an AE86 guy, so he is a little biased. The good thing about those is that they are built like little tanks and a supercharged engine is a simple swap. I will have to keep looking at them.

Cory, the S14s actually go for a lot more out here than the S13s. People love to do the SR20DET swap and drift them like crazy. Anything that is FR has a premium because of the drift crowd.

93EXCivic, I like British cars, I really do. However, just the hearing the word Lucas gives me nightmares for weeks. I DO have a dream about building a TR7 hardtop racer, but I would basically mean swapping out every part on the car for something made by another manufacturer.

The Focus is also a good idea, so I will keep my eye out for one. I definitely cannot afford an SVT off the bat, so I would be limited to the 2.0 ZX3. How are they as rally cars (you know, for us club-level racers, not WRC teams)?

Bluesideup, I see TONS of FCs on CL for ridiculously cheap prices. I am a little iffy on the rotaries, but a gen 1 GSL-SE would certainly be cool. I will not be removing any of the smog equipment, so smog will not be an issue

Revised short list I think will be CRX/Civic Si, MR2, and perhaps a Focus or RX7 (1st gen GSL-SE 13b action).

Either that or a Probe GT turbo.

Try driving a Z31. I wasn't really a fan till I drove and owned one.

I did a track day on mis-matched allseasons and I passed many many people. Including an ITA race car civic. In my daily driver. On all seasons.

My suspension is eibach front springs, tokico illumina struts front, koni yellow rear shocks and custom lowering springs rear. No hint of understeer and brakes got the car to rotate. IT WAS SO MUCH FUN.

Also mines a turbo with basic power mods, and its a 12 second car, daily driving and I drift it a lot too. I paid under $2K for it.

~Alex

Geekspeed wrote: The Focus is also a good idea, so I will keep my eye out for one. I definitely cannot afford an SVT off the bat, so I would be limited to the 2.0 ZX3. How are they as rally cars (you know, for us club-level racers, not WRC teams)?

You'd be surprised - I've seen them for under $3000 with under 100k miles. Kids want to move on so they dump them. Grab one of those, re-paint the dash back to black, and you are track ready with some brake pads. The SVT had MUCH better brakes than the other Foci, and the Cosworth engine parts give you excellent reliability and better power than a ZX3. The ZX3 with a small homebrew turbo would do well, tho I don't think it would be as track-reliable as the N/A SVT. There's something to be said for running your track sessions all day without incident while your paddock buds have their cars up on stands half of the day.

I can't answer the rally question except that they rally them a ton across the pond. If you are thinking rally, an older and cheaper A2/A3 VW might be a good choice. The SVT seems to be in its element on a road course - I personally wouldn't kill one by rallying it.

A friend of mine does time trial in what was an '85 GSL-SE. He has a lot of experience with the car and rotaries in general. My attraction to the FC is the additional interior room (I'm 6'5") and the independent rear suspension vs. the solid axle on the FBs.

He does quite well despite the solid rear.

There are decent number of SVTs on CL, including one with body damage for $3K. I'm sure you could talk your way into that.

2002 SVT with body damage

Any car at that price point is going to need some suspension and brake work to get on track. The Focus would probably be less likely to blow up but as long as you keep them cool rotaries seem to be happiest on track.

Escort/Protege/Tracer/MX3/323/Sephia

Basically... anything with a Mazda BP 1.8 DOHC in it. Go to town.

Geekspeed wrote: Either that or a Probe GT turbo.

If you were serious about this... get the Mx6 GT Turbo instead. Same car, just without the "Ford Weight Penalty." They weigh 300-400lbs less. As such, they're faster, and handle better.

Get ready to cut up the hood for some cooling.

bluesideup wrote:

My pants just got a bit tighter.

I have had a number of FA 7s. I am 6'6" and always found them quite comfortable. I raced two seasons in Spec7 and other than spending money on brakes and tires, the car was great on relaibility and was a hoot to drive.

Something pre-smog seems like the best idea to me. Getting a hi milege rotary to pass could be tough, even worse for a carb'd car. Yes, I had emission laws too. I'd look into a Fiero with a V6. 85-87 cars are fairly cheap and the engines are tough. 88's handle and brake better, but are much more expensive.

ST_ZX2 wrote:

bluesideup wrote:

My pants just got a bit tighter. I have had a number of FA 7s. I am 6'6" and always found them quite comfortable. I raced two seasons in Spec7 and other than spending money on brakes and tires, the car was great on relaibility and was a hoot to drive.

Yeaaahhh... that thing is incredible.

jrw1621 wrote: Something that knows it's way to the track... Quick samples. http://losangeles.craigslist.org/sfv/cto/2558552008.html

Oh holy WANT, Batman!!!!!!

I would put the rising sun on the hood again, ASAP.

I'm pretty sure this car would be a good start to a UTCC contender, actually. You can make well over 500whp using the motor that's in there as a base.

Gearheadotaku wrote: I'd look into a Fiero with a V6. 85-87 cars are fairly cheap and the engines are tough. 88's handle and brake better, but are much more expensive.

In my experience with an '86 Fiero I think there are much better choices out there in your price range.

Tercel, paseo. Cheap, bulletproof, they are easily turbocharged, by using bits from the jdm 1.3 dohc 4e-fte engine, solid beam rear suspension, whiteline makes suspension pieces for them, etc. Did I mention theyre cheap?

^Maybe up there? I've been trying to find a cheap solid Paseo near me for 2 years. I gave up.

Good option if he can find one, though!

92CelicaHalfTrac wrote: Escort/Protege/Tracer/MX3/323/Sephia Basically... anything with a Mazda BP 1.8 DOHC in it. Go to town.

With all due respect to Ben, the Zetec in the ZX2 is a stout little engine too. It wont rev like the BP, but it makes a broad torque curve--and still revs up OK. There is a ton of aftermarket for it too--so 170-180 NA crank HP is certainly do-able with a minimal amount of fuss. The ZX2 is far more common than any of the other BG chassis cars too...and can be had cheap. Would make a fine little track car, especially in S/R trim or with an EGT rear brake conversion.

ST_ZX2 wrote:

92CelicaHalfTrac wrote: Escort/Protege/Tracer/MX3/323/Sephia Basically... anything with a Mazda BP 1.8 DOHC in it. Go to town.

With all due respect to Ben, the Zetec in the ZX2 is a stout little engine too. It wont rev like the BP, but it makes a broad torque curve--and still revs up OK. There is a ton of aftermarket for it too--so 170-180 NA crank HP is certainly do-able. The ZX2 is far more common than any of the other BG chassis cars too...and can be had cheap. Would make a fine little track car, especially in S/R trim or with an EGT rear brake conversion.

^Also what he said... i just keep forgetting about them because i don't have one.

They're probably easier to find in good shape these days, too.

Really there isn't many in California? that sucks. Protege and escorts are awesome too.. Maybe a 323gtx?? What's the budget we're talking here!

CanadianTercel wrote: Really there isn't many in California? that sucks. Protege and escorts are awesome too.. Maybe a 323gtx?? What's the budget we're talking here!

No idea, i live in Indianapolis.

I wouldn't use a 323GTX as a cheap race beater. Too many expensive things to go wrong.

E36 328i, they're now cheaper than a comparable condition e30, all the M3 go-fast bits bolt on and they're comfy daily drivers.

I prefer the obdII cars (1996-99) since diagnostic work is simpler thanks to the reasonably advanced management system. I would stay away from the early non-vanos engines since the management system is primitive and can be a pain to make pass smog.

Gearheadotaku wrote: Something pre-smog seems like the best idea to me. Getting a hi milege rotary to pass could be tough, even worse for a carb'd car. Yes, I had emission laws too. I'd look into a Fiero with a V6. 85-87 cars are fairly cheap and the engines are tough. 88's handle and brake better, but are much more expensive.

Only if you don't plan on driving it a lot on the street.

Not because I'm a greenie (which I am....), but because I seem to get nasty headaches driving my GTV any longer than an hour at a time. CO and HC emissions are a bitch. The longer I drive, the less I want to drive a pre-1990 car for any significant amount of time.

With a track car, the risk is less, since you can do better airflow to keep the driver cooler.

Hmm.. so far i like these ones:

SVT focus Zx2 Escort GT Neon Civic E36

If civics are on the list i'd say integras too. My mom had an 01 gs/5spd that i spent some time in. It's a great car, and the ugly ones should be under 2k for a driver and have massive upgrade potential, similar to civic.

RX7s are pretty much done in California, yes they are around, but they take so much trouble to get past the emissions testing that if there are other options then you would be better off with any of those.

Emissions testing in CA is such a horrible pain. Also, don't forget that anything built after 1975 has to pass emissions. That is correct, there is no rolling exemption in CA anymore. Also, in order to register a used car in your name, it has to have passed a smog check within the last 90 days. If it doesn't, you cannot register it. In addition, if you cannot register it, or if you put is as planned non-op (which you cannot do if you are transferring title to another person), it can't have a single wheel touch a public road, even if it is parked. I can't stand damned this state.

Anyway, I was not aware that the rotaries would be so hard to smog. I probably should have figured that, however. The car I get has to be smog legal, as I do not have a way to tow the sucker. I also want to be able to drive it more often than just on track days.

I like the Fords, I have one, so I will keep looking. I see ZX2s a lot for cheap. I thought they had weak gearboxes, though.

And I was only half kidding about the Probe. Would it be that much heavier even if I stripped it of all of the useless interior and electronic crap?

Oh, one question in regards to Mustangs. How do you make them handle for cheap? My understanding is that you have to AT LEAST do a panhard bar conversion, brake upgrade, and use a bumpsteer kit just to get them to be somewhat track worthy. I seem to remember all of that stuff being pretty spendy....

Regarding ZX2 transmissions, they're reliable if they're not abused. The gears for sure will hold up.

Don't punch your shifter with a sledgehammer, and the shift forks won't break. 2003 forks are stouter, so bulletproof OEM replacements are available. Or just buy an '03, if you can find one. The differential will last so long as you don't do nitrous-fueled drag strip launches. Plenty of responsible adults have put tons of track miles on ZX2s. More often it's the kids who break diffs.

Team Filthy has campaigned a ZX2 in LeMons for several years now. They broke a shift fork once. A team at LeMons Chicago last year broke a shift fork too, though they bought a former circle track car which was certainly abused. Shift with your fingers, not your fist, and it'll hold up.

The answer is Fiat X1/9