Any here know 90's Corolla's and Celica's?

I still miss my Geo Prizm, and I've had big dreams of getting another one someday and making it into a serious sleeper.

I've tossed around the idea of different 4AGE swaps, but none of them seem to have real easy high-HP potential. Out of boredom today, I learned that the Gen III and IV 3SGTE motors are rated at over 250HP and getting an imported example isn't unreasonably priced. I also learned that tossing one into a 93-97 Corolla/Prizm chassis isn't nearly as involved as I had once thought.

It appears it can be done with a combination of Rav4, Celica, Camry and SW20 MR-2 parts, a little drilling for one mount, and some involved wiring which can easily and affordably be outsourced.

What I can't seem to get a clear answer on is what else from other Toyota's can transfer over to improve other areas of the car. I've seen plenty of pictures of overseas AE10X chassis Corolla's sporting 5 lug suspensions and rear discs, but can't seem to find how they attained it.

There seems to be only speculation and hear-say that Camry and 4th/5th/6th Gen Celica suspensions can swap over. Then, someone shoots the idea down and an argument ensues without anyone showing evidence.

Anyone here familiar with what does actually work for this?

You can put GZE pistons in and turbo it and get good results. I'm at work so a lot of sites are blocked but I know i've seen FWD 4AGE turbo manifolds for sale.

4AGE is a perfectly good engine with lots of support, no reason to swap it. I've seen dynos of ~300whp with a GT2860 turbo.

Without the GZE pistons you could easily reach 250hp. People get around 200-210whp. Engine management should be easy as they have megasquirt pnp for this.

Here is a NZ 7AGTE AE92 (1.8L hybrid motor) that has 340wkw. That is over 450whp. Your goals are easily exceeded with just the 4AGE setup. http://www.mrpltd.co.nz/sponsoredcars.html

Nope, no. We don't know anyone like that here. Certainly not Swank Force one. Nope! Definitely not him...

kanaric wrote: You can put GZE pistons in and turbo it and get good results. I'm at work so a lot of sites are blocked but I know i've seen FWD 4AGE turbo manifolds for sale. 4AGE is a perfectly good engine with lots of support, no reason to swap it. I've seen dynos of ~300whp with a GT2860 turbo. Without the GZE pistons you could easily reach 250hp. People get around 200-210whp. Engine management should be easy as they have megasquirt pnp for this. Here is a NZ 7AGTE AE92 (1.8L hybrid motor) that has 340wkw. That is over 450whp. Your goals are easily exceeded with just the 4AGE setup. http://www.mrpltd.co.nz/sponsoredcars.html

I've always been aware of the 4AGE's potential for this chassis, but I've looked toward the 3SGTE for a few reasons.

First of all, I won't have to do anything to the 3SGTE to already have well over 200HP. No need to take apart the motor before it goes in and no need for tuning. I'd have to think that if it were left mostly factory on the original tune, it would be pretty reliable. I'm not 100% but I've heard that the original 7AFE rods are like toothpicks.

I'd have to look into it, but I would think hunting down all the necessary GZE and turbo parts, doing the wiring, getting the needed pieces to tune it and getting the necessary machine work done would take around the same amount of money as getting a complete ST215 engine/trans/harness/ecu, but take a significant amount more time. With the 3SGTE, I'd already have around 250HP and wouldn't need to crack open the motor or tune like I would if I was shooting for that HP in an AF/AG motor.

All I can add is I drive a 1990 Prizm and I can see some potential in it, I have ST springs, GR-2 shocks/struts, strut bar and used to run wider summer rubber. It was entertaining but definitely needs power. That and it just doesn't compete with my 89 Civic in the handling dept. That's the one I wish I had a street version of now.

Yes you CAN put an "S" motor in an "A" chassis but it's pretty involved to do correctly.

The Caldina 3sgte is nice, but be aware that the turbo is cast as part of the manifold so... that's a pain. However, that motor will reach 300whp with bolt ons, so what's important to you?

I don't remember what swaps between the A and S chassis, but I do remember looking at some of the corolla 3sgte swaps in the past and deciding to just stick with a Celica because it was WAY easier.

How were you planning on fitting an e153 in the Corolla? With what axles?

You're on the right path with avoiding the gen 1/2 3sgtes. Those things are finicky pains in the ass on stock electronics. Great with a standalone though.

Swank Force One wrote: Yes you CAN put an "S" motor in an "A" chassis but it's pretty involved to do correctly. The Caldina 3sgte is nice, but be aware that the turbo is cast as part of the manifold so... that's a pain. However, that motor will reach 300whp with bolt ons, so what's important to you? I don't remember what swaps between the A and S chassis, but I do remember looking at some of the corolla 3sgte swaps in the past and deciding to just stick with a Celica because it was WAY easier. How were you planning on fitting an e153 in the Corolla? With what axles? You're on the right path with avoiding the gen 1/2 3sgtes. Those things are finicky pains in the ass on stock electronics. Great with a standalone though.

As far as making power, I think a bolt on Caldina motor will be plenty. I'd be happy if the car had some 12 second potential (with the right tires of course) and the ability to embarrass some mainstream late model sport compacts that populate my local enthusiast scene, all on the stock tune.

I did some forum hunting and found an AE101 "S swap" recipe from some guy in Europe. They used an AX10 (1st Gen) Rav4 motor mount. Apparently the S54 will fit using Corolla/Celica front and back trans mounts. It's the one on top of the trans that needs some tweaking, but apparently drilling on the stock mount is all that's needed.

For axles, apparently some combination of SW20 and ST162/165/184/185/204 axles will work.

My target car for this project would be to find the most BEAT POS Prizm I can find for cheap. That would obviously only increase the sleeper factor... What I'm thinking I might do, is get the Prizm first, then find a "parts car" 5SFE/S54 ST184/204 or 3SGE/S54 ST162 Celica to use its drivetrain for mock up and Celica/Corolla compatibility.

E gearbox is fitted to the all trac models.

3S is better out of the box... but as mods grow the 3S has been known to fail @ about 500-600 hp. 4As have been known to exceed 600

I can tell you about the brake swaps. AE101s were available from the factory with rear discs, but I don't know if that option was available in the US. Celica rear discs can be swapped onto AE9x-AE1xx rear suspension, but that's not a quick and easy swap. There are plenty of options for front brakes, but the bigger ones are rare...from the Celica, AE111 coupe or AE92 GTZ.

Once you have discs all-around you'll have good enough brakes, but the AE101 and especially the AE92 will benefit from more rearward brake bias.

In reply to oldeskewltoy:

There's 1200whp+ 3sgtes out there.

Internally stock 3sgtes fail around 500whp.

shelbyz wrote: I'd have to think that if it were left mostly factory on the original tune, it would be pretty reliable. I'm not 100% but I've heard that the original 7AFE rods are like toothpicks.

Not to stray too far off topic, but I think much of this reputation comes from an unfortunate mismatch of 4AGE and 7AFE parts without a full understanding of the timing issues that can arise. In my experience, the guys cc'ing chambers, measuring deck height, degreeing cams, and calculating static/dynamic compression ratios and piston speed aren't having too many issues. The guys building a 7A-GE by bolting the two engines together on a junkyard bottom end, perhaps taking a "drop cams and/or pistons in there while it is apart" approach, not measuring cam timing, and then running it on a stock ECU and fuel system are breaking rods. Guess which one gets repeated all around the internet?

If a stock or lightly tuned 4AGE doesn't do it for you, you will be better off with a swap unless you are enough of a 4A fanatic to spend some $ on building it properly. Nothing wrong with that if you are crazy like some of us.

If I were in your shoes with your criteria, I would pursue the parts-bin swap. Keep in mind that All-Trac Corollas have an E-series transaxle in an AE9x chassis, so should have the trans mount, axles, clutch/flywheel you need. Just source a 3S, motor mounts, engine ancillaries, and wiring...easy, right?

shelbyz wrote:

kanaric wrote: You can put GZE pistons in and turbo it and get good results. I'm at work so a lot of sites are blocked but I know i've seen FWD 4AGE turbo manifolds for sale. 4AGE is a perfectly good engine with lots of support, no reason to swap it. I've seen dynos of ~300whp with a GT2860 turbo. Without the GZE pistons you could easily reach 250hp. People get around 200-210whp. Engine management should be easy as they have megasquirt pnp for this. Here is a NZ 7AGTE AE92 (1.8L hybrid motor) that has 340wkw. That is over 450whp. Your goals are easily exceeded with just the 4AGE setup. http://www.mrpltd.co.nz/sponsoredcars.html

I've always been aware of the 4AGE's potential for this chassis, but I've looked toward the 3SGTE for a few reasons. First of all, I won't have to do anything to the 3SGTE to already have well over 200HP. No need to take apart the motor before it goes in and no need for tuning. I'd have to think that if it were left mostly factory on the original tune, it would be pretty reliable. I'm not 100% but I've heard that the original 7AFE rods are like toothpicks. I'd have to look into it, but I would think hunting down all the necessary GZE and turbo parts, doing the wiring, getting the needed pieces to tune it and getting the necessary machine work done would take around the same amount of money as getting a complete ST215 engine/trans/harness/ecu, but take a significant amount more time. With the 3SGTE, I'd already have around 250HP and wouldn't need to crack open the motor or tune like I would if I was shooting for that HP in an AF/AG motor.

Well I think one thing you are underestimating is the amount of work it would be to swap in the 3SGE engine.

If you wan to not open up an engine you could easily acquire a 4AGZE longblock and just bolt that in. From there the aftermarket has supply for turbo conversions. AE101 turbo conversions have been done quite a bit, there are 100s of write ups and several sites for bolt on parts. Hunting it down would take all of 30 minutes. IIRC any FWD 4age turbo manifold will with with the AE82-111 cars.

I can't see how 3SGTE would be easier at all. Relative novices do AE86, AE92, and AW11 turbo builds.

Talk to this guy and he could supply with with all you need, parts and knowledge: http://www.matrixgarage.com/

He even says on 4AGE forums he can build you a kit + directions. All you would need is engine management. You can probably even get a 4AGZE block from him. If you don't want to go with him there are multiple other venders that offer parts. It's all readily available.

Keep in mind that your current block with a easily acquired/cheap GTRS turbo at 7psi would meet your power goals and be reliable if properly tuned. AE86-AE111 and AW11 MR2 4AGE are probably among the easiest cars to do a turbo build on, that there wasn't an OEM turbo model. AE82-AE111 and MR2 are especially easy because you have a bolt in engine block option that can do WELL over 300whp and the transmissions can take the power as well and you have MANY options for upgade even a 6 speed if you want.

Turns out there is even a harness for AE101 4AGE to use Greddy Emanage Ultimate.

http://www.rhdjapan.com/trust-greddy-e-manage-vehicle-specific-harness-toyota.html

If you had AE82, ae92, or AE111 you could use MSPNP.

The 7A issue is a side issue because you can make whatever power you want with a 4AGE/4AGZE.