Any motorhome owners on here?

I have decided SanFord is going to be moving on to a new owner in the next few months. I'm pretty sure the Blunder bus is going to go away as well. With that in mind, I'm looking at newer Class A motorhomes. Something in the 40' range. Diesel pusher. I'm shopping used, under $75k and 10-15 years old. 

I keep hearing all kinds of horror stories about these. Engine problems, cracked manifolds, blown turbochargers, suspension failures, not to mention all the problems with the RV parts like slides that quit and electrical problems. With that in mind, I'm doing some research. 

Who made your coach?

What chassis is it on?

What engine does it have? I hear the Cat engines are to be avoided but there are a lot of them out there. 

Do you like it? 

What kind of problems have you had?

My current rig is a 31' Tiffin on an F53 chassis. It has been fairly trouble-free since I bought it. The upholstery is in good shape, everything works. It is also 25 years old and fairly small inside. 

I looked at a 2005 Gulf Stream Atrium with a 350hp Cat C7 today. The exterior was very nice. The electrical system was well installed and neat. But the interior hadn't aged very well. Some of that was due to maintenance, but some was due to materials. 

I don't want to buy another project that needs work. I also don't want to spend $200k on a motorhome. 

I have a 2002 Fleetwood revolution - 38', 350 cummins with allison trans.  I found mine in the PNW a few years ago, it was used for a short while as an inlaw suite for a vietnamese family.  I had to do a ton of deferred maintenance but its been rock solid otherwise.  I like the cummins engines but thats all my coaches have had - I had to hunt to find the ISC 8.3 which is the 24V.  There are a lot of big DPs with the 5.9 in them so watch out.  Mine has 2 slides which I think its the key to making it roomy and livable.  One thing I've noticed on the earlier coaches - more slides add GVW and may drop your towing or carrying capacity.  Some of the 4 slide rigs are only rated for 5K in towing.

There seems to be a depreciation curve on these coaches so just changing the MY a few years can add or removed 10s of thousands.  Mine is dang near 20 years old, its showing a little age but very similar to newer coaches.  Someone at some point removed all the carpeting at tiled the floor and its held up pretty well.  I've got some windows that are popping the inner gasket, old water damage, and some delamination in the windshields but overall it looks young for its age.

Lately I've hooked up with outdoorsy to utilize it when I'm not using it.  Its worked out pretty well overall, there seems to be a pretty big demand for coach rentals.  In fact, I had a GRM'r who wanted to pick it up from my work.  Taking Dad to a track day!  I thought I was cool towing a M3P behind the coach:

But he promptly loaded something WAAAY cooler:

I probably looked at 50+ coaches before I found this one.  I had to find something that had the floorplan I liked, an upscale interior, and good towing capacity.  

Not an RV owner myself, but you might want to check with 03Panther if his rig is still for sale. Although the engine is at the wrong end if you're looking for a Diesel pusher.

I don't want to derail the thread, but have you considered a Super C Class?  I signed on a few years ago to drive this one to The Challenge. 

It too was a Gulf Stream brand.  Behind it we towed a 20ft enclosed trailer.  The owner used to have a Totterhome and he likes this setup better.  

It drove and towed just like a Uhaul where the box was living quarters rather than storage quarters.  Everything felt up to the task for driving 1,000 miles each way.  Some Class As seem like they are designed for comfort/living first and drivability is a 2nd thought (maybe 3rd or 4th thought.)

My biggest complaint of the one we had was that it was gas.  This is not to say that the 8.0L was not up to the task, actually it was ample.  The real problem with this long combo rig as gas was that when buying fuel at a truck stop like Petro or Truck Stops of America, we could not pull to the back of the building, like the big rigs, to the easy access diesel pumps.   Since we need gasoline we had to fight all the cars to the pumps in the front of the building.  

BoxheadTim said:

Not an RV owner myself, but you might want to check with 03Panther if his rig is still for sale. Although the engine is at the wrong end if you're looking for a Diesel pusher.

Panther's  $70k rig . A super duper Class C

Cat engines are great. I have had two that went over a million miles. (One was the earlier version of a C7). The only engines to stay away from are the EGR editions and they are all universally bad, although they did start to figure it out toward the end. So stay pre 2004 unless you want to go urea which will blow your budget. 

I have heard to many slide stories to want one of them. My recommendation if you go with a slide is to get a truck based unit with very heavy frame rails. I saw one at an RV dealer a while ago and the slide had fallen out. It was sitting at a 45 degree angle jammed against the roof. I think they are expensive and heavy done well, which means in most affordable applications they are cheaply built and way too light in order to keep the weight and price down. 

For your budget you could get an awfully nice Wanderlodge or GM bus conversion. 

Or that one /\ /\ /\

John Welsh said:

  Some Class As seem like they are designed for comfort/living first and drivability is a 2nd thought (maybe 3rd or 4th thought.)

My biggest complaint of the one we had was that it was gas.  This is not to say that the 8.0L was not up to the task, actually it was ample.  The real problem with this long combo rig as gas was that when buying fuel at a gas station like Petro or Truck Stops of America, we could not pull to the back of the building, like the big rigs, to the easy access diesel pumps.   Since we need gasoline we had to fight all the cars to the pumps in the front of the building.  

 

That is my story too.  I just sold my F53 chassis based Class A a few weeks ago.  It was a 2004 chassis and I had it since new.  Always kept in a heated/cooled garage when not in use and only had 36K miles on it.  It was all fine and dandy once you got to where you were going, but getting there and back was NO fun.  The final straw was my last trip to Watkins Glen from Chattanooga TN, which included a side trip to far upstate NY, Messina, Ogdensburg area.  I spent $1000 in gas on that trip.  Along the way, I finally figured out that sitting directly over the left front tire that was on a I-beam axle and suspended on leaf springs was insane.  It beat the living crap out of me.  Coupled with an endless wrestling match against the wind and 18 wheelers it just pushed me over the edge and I put it up for sale the day I got back.  Unbelievable interest in it immediately, sold it to the second person that looked at it for full price.  There is a lot of demand for used coaches right now so be prepared to pay a premium.

Slides are fabulous for space but can be troublesome.  Mine were electric, many higher end units are hydraulic.  I had shaft interlock pin (bolt) shear on my big slide not too long after I got it and the whole damn slide slid out about 2 feet while navigating a curve on a narrow two lane road.  That was exciting.

My Class A was only 32 feet, but even then towing a 18' car trailer made it essential to carefully scope out how to get in and out of gas pumps. 

I think the Super C is the way to go forward for me.  It has to be more comfortable than a bus chassis unless it is based on something crazy expensive.  There are quite a few Supers Cs that are on medium truck chassis with diesels.  The aren't cheap, but they are probably a lot more comfortable and cost effective than a Class A.

My dad is about to sell his tiffin allegro bus based on a freighliner chassis. It's nice but does need maintenance. I've driven it though and the air suspension, Allison tranny and big diesel are amazing. I just don't have anywhere to put it. He's going to ask 17k I think. 
My brother in law stayed in it for a month while looking for an apparent last year and said it was great. I think it's 40'

In reply to John Welsh :

This thing is so awesome. 

In reply to stukndapast :

I hear that a lot about the newer F53 chassis. Mine is the older chassis with the 460 instead of the V10. It rides and drives extremely well. Like one hand on the wheel about to fall asleep well. Maybe I better keep what I have. 

I have some friends with a Workhorse chassis and they hate driving it. It's a white knuckle event every time they get behind the wheel. 

Honestly, I want something with slides. The Atrium I looked at today had 4 of them and the sheer amount of space that provides you is amazing compared to my older RV with no slides. We will probably be living in this for a year or so as we build a house. Space is going to be important. I can put up with a little aggravation for the space it provides. 

Been a long time since I did a diesel pusher, and it was a Prevost H3 with a Detroit 60.  Sweet ride, but overkill

Avoid the Workhorse chassis.  It was marginal as front-engine, terrible as a pusher.  Way too much heft for the chassis.  Also, long in the tooth.  I think they quit the pushers in the early 90s when they punted that job to Blue Bird.

John Deere chassis is the Freightliner setup that does things much better.  Be careful, too.  The names like to flip-flop over the decades.

Good resource on the chassis manufacturers:  Type A Chassis: The Diesel Pushers – Family RVing Magazine  This link is from the mid 2000s, so grain of salt if you're buying new.

Find a mid 90's to early oughts Foretravel and be done with it. They're built more like yachts than RV's.

Or a Wanderlodge. If you can find one...

In reply to Jay_W :

Hmmm. This one is quite the beast. 

We have a '02 Fleetwood Expedition 34' 2 slides, 5.9 Cummins 325hp, 6 speed Allison, 80k miles. Fantastically reliable. Only problem has been the turbo T bolt clamp broke & the serpentine belt tensioner broke. Started heating up on the start of a trip so checked it out & put a ratchet strap on it to get back home. Called Fleetwood (24 hour tech support) on the way home & asked if the local dealer had it in stock. He said it was out of stock but Napa has them & here is the PN.  Got home & on more checking, the water pump weep hole was also dripping. Got the pump, tensioner & belt at Napa & changed in 1 hour. Very easy to work on & cheap.  
The only complaint I've heard of on the Cat motors is the cost of parts isn't cheap. Very, very good motors but expensive to maintain. 

We've had 3 or 4 units over the years.  About 7 years ago we bought this Gulfstream 38'+  with 8.6 gas on workhorse chassis.  Got it for like $35K with the Suzuki 4WD Vitara toad.  The toad has been a blast in places like Moab, or gravel roads along the North Rim.

Its been to all 48, Alaska, and multiple trips to Canada.  About 57,000 miles now.   I bought gas because I can work on it  (oil changes etc.) and my brother's $1,200 "oil changes" on his diesel pusher scared me.

I admit it is a bit harsh ride on PA roads.  And, its a slow trip to crest 10,000 foot passes in Colorado.  We've had no issues with the slides.  Dollar for dollar it has been great.

Picture taken at an event at Daytona this past June.

Toyman01 + Sized and said:

Who made your coach? 2007 Neumar Kountry Star

What chassis is it on? Spartan Mountain Master GT with IFS

What engine does it have? Pre-Emissions Cummins ISL 8.9L 400hp + Allison 6-speed

Do you like it? Yes. The engine and trans were flawless. The chassis was super solid. Using tire inflation charts over the 1-size-fits-all factory recommendations noticeably improved ride quality. The coach was nice enough, but was not overly 'high end' either. When we purchased, we narrowed it down to Tiffin and Neumar. Gulf Stream didn't seem to have as good of a reputation, at least at that time. If I had to do it again though, I would also be looking at Super-C's, and wouldn't shy away from gas engines. While they don't pull through the mountains with quite the same ease, they're considerably cheaper and easier to operate and maintain when (like most RV's) you're not actually racking up the miles at a particularly high quickly. In this age any RV has an increasing potential for some major issues, especially if there has been deferred maintenance, and the diesels get expensive FAST. Getting something a little smaller and with a gas engine that lets you go newer newer might ultimately be a better choice.

What kind of problems have you had? Some minor issues in the interface between chassis and coach, and typical RV industry QC fixes in the 1st year. The large windshield WILL get beat up, and ours being 1-piece was rather expensive to replace. No major systems issues though. Proper maintenance is important, but also expensive. Back then it was at least $1k-$1.5k per year, sometimes more, and almost regardless of miles driven. Make sure previous owners didn't skimp on this. Overall we took care of it and it took care of us.

This is my parents' answers for the motorhome they bought new and sold after a little over a decade of living in it.

So I went to the farm today and picked up my motorhome to get it ready for a trip to the track. 

It sure does drive well. With the cruise set at 70 it eases on down the interstate with no issues other than sucking down the gas. 

The more I think about that the more I'm convinced it's due to the weight, or lack there of. My rig tips the scales at 13k pounds with the fresh water tank full and the others empty. It's sitting on a 17k pound chassis and has a gcrw of 25k pounds. So even loaded to the gills I can still tow 8000 pounds.

I bet the newer rigs with all the tile, slides and geegaws are a lot heavier the mine and thats why they ride and drive so bad. 

Maybe I should take 10% of the cost of a newer rig and update mine. $14k would go a long way. Get rid of what we dont need and improve the areas I don't like. 

Does a diesel pusher drive significantly better than a front engine gas rig? The Gulfstream I looked at tips the scales at 29572 pounds with a gvrw of 32350k pounds. That leaves you less than 3k in carrying capacity. 

Look into prevost.  Chassis are solid and you can find some older units that are great.  We just sold ours just to save on storage and such, but that's it.  

These chassis were built solid.  

They run an old Detroit diesel which is solid and an Allison 5spd.  Look for the 8v92t for more power and such too.

You can run a class a with a gasser, but for that price you should find a diesel option if your willing to look.  Also, a super c can be nice.  

My 20 year old class A sits on air bags & shocks, no springs.  Floats along the road just fine.

Thanks to the folks that mentioned the Big Boy 

I have not felt like dealing with the kinda people that a local administration would get, so here is still the only place it's mentioned, and a bit of word of mouth. So still available, in the right price range... and I'd consider a smaller rv in partial trade!

That being said, my advice to you would be make what ya have into what ya want it to be! You definitely have the skills. Go for it. 

This probably won't be a popular position, but having been a parts tech at a heavy duty shop that regularly works on Class A's, my advice is always don't, if you can avoid it.  

Difficult and expensive maintenance, hard to find parts, iffy construction, sketchy low quality electrical, huge flat windshield designed to catch as many rocks as the road can throw at it.  It all adds up.

To top it off, they sit idle a lot, which rots seals, freezes brakes, and causes general mayhem with all the systems.

I've seen one with a rusted up air brake caliper of which there was one replacement in North America, and it was $7000.  I've seen another where neither the coach builder or chassis builder could tell us which parts were used in the A/C system.  Fortunately our A/C guy was able to get under it and spend a couple days building all new lines for it, (not cheap).

Of you need something to tow with, I'd say go class C or campervan.

If you don't need to tow, I always recommend a pickup (preferably gas) and 5th wheel.  

In reply to Sidewayze :

Good advice for most folks! On the maintenance side, I expect most on here are a bit better than the average rv'er; but build quality is poor no matter who buys it! There is a reason class A are referred to as "stick and staple" jobs. 
We decided against one due to seeing some post accident... looks like someone tossed a box of toothpicks out on the road. And my wife realized she did not want to be setting out in front of the axle with a big piece of glass as her main protection. 
We had started looking in the $30K range class A, and they were not built very well. When we got a realistic chance to shop in the $60-70K range, we found same poor construction with prettier stuff tacked on. 

In reply to Sidewayze :

Good points to consider. I have a friend stuck out west at the moment waiting on a trailing arm.

Another reason to stay with what I have. F53 parts are common as dirt and cheap.

The brake caliper I had to replace after I bought it was $38 and in stock at the local FLAPS. The sway bar bushings weren't local but Rock Auto carried them for $6. 

In reply to 03Panther :

Mine is aluminum framed. There is no wood in the exterior framing at all. It's all aluminum frames with foam and fiberglass. It might survive a little better, but not much.

MSRP in 1996 was $57000. I paid $4750 three years ago.