ProDarwin said:
bobzilla said:
Rio SX hatch has the big brakes over the Accent. Loaded SX with power everything is about 2550lbs. Lower trim manual windows are under 2500lbs with the 138hp GDI. Want a hot version? Snag a Veloster Turbo and bolt it in.
Do you have a thread for this? Do you mean the powertrain, or just the turbo parts?
I've been curious about the differences between the turbo and NA variants of both the 1.6 and the 2.0.
So, the basic differences between the 1.6 version, NA has a smaller oil sump, different cams and no turbo hanging off the back of the engine. Turbo gets much improved trans gearing over the na, but the accent/rio are the only ones to have the crappy 2-3 gap. The Veloster NA 1.6 (first gen) trans was also used behind the 1.4 in hte Rio and offers an improvement.
Other than piping for exhaust, intercooler and oil coolers the two are interchangeable in the different platforms. They use the same mounts, same ECU pin outs, same intake etc.
The 2.0Nu is completely different than the 2.0T in the N versions. The N cars use a modern, updated Theta. The NA 2.0 is the Nu. The newer Nu engines went back to MPFI over GDI and lowered the compression, also dropping power from 174 to 148hp but improved longevity.
Ok, the 2.0 stuff confuses me. I was thinking older 2.0s... for example a Forte 5door with a 2.0 theta - can you just rob the turbo goodies from the sonata turbo?
Cool that the 1.6s can be upgraded so easily. Can the ECU just be reflashed? The oil sump and cams can be swapped easy enough I imagine? The internals will all hold up?
Not going to lie, a 1.6t Rio does sound fun.
In reply to Snrub :
From what I've read, though, the base fiesta is not great compared to its competition (Honda fit and mazda2) in terms of chassis and handling
In reply to bobzilla :
Thanks! Sounds like post 2012 lx is my best option?
In reply to bobzilla :
Is the fit really that light? I've read 2400 for the fit and 2200 for the Mazda2. I could be wrong though.
Remind me, is the rio also still torsion beam?
ProDarwin said:
Ok, the 2.0 stuff confuses me. I was thinking older 2.0s... for example a Forte 5door with a 2.0 theta - can you just rob the turbo goodies from the sonata turbo?
Cool that the 1.6s can be upgraded so easily. Can the ECU just be reflashed? The oil sump and cams can be swapped easy enough I imagine? The internals will all hold up?
Not going to lie, a 1.6t Rio does sound fun.
You just snag a complete 1.6T and bolt it in. The non turbo cars are pushing 11.5-12:1 compression and a turbo on that would cause mass chaos and plenty of new block inspection ports. You're not going to cheaply turn a NA engine into a turbo engine. But you can snag a totaled Veloster Turbo (14-17) for a couple grand and use the engine, harness, trans and ecu and bolt into the rio/accent. Then, if you feel like 201hp and 2500lbs isn't enough go get a tune and have 250hp in a 2500lb car with an open diff.
As for the old Theta's, the 2.0T sonata engine was a GDI turbo, the 2.0L NA Theta were port injected, so a lot of differences there as well. Compression ratios, cams, oiling etc is completely different.
And the reason I have been begging for an i20N. It's an Accent, with Veloster/i30 knuckles/brakes and the 1.6T engine with an LSD. All factory.
Evanuel9 said:
In reply to bobzilla :
Is the fit really that light? I've read 2400 for the fit and 2200 for the Mazda2. I could be wrong though.
Remind me, is the rio also still torsion beam?
First gen fits are light, really light. And terrible as cars compared to anything else made in the last 10-15 years.
In reply to bobzilla :
So I got curious and did some digging and, according to edmunds at least, the rio is lighter than a gen 1 fit.
2410 lbs for the rio: https://www.edmunds.com/kia/rio/2013/st-200419056/features-specs/
Vs
2500 ish for the fit: https://www.edmunds.com/honda/fit/2007/features-specs/
Evanuel9 said:
In reply to RonnieFnD :
Oh ok I get it now. I see why it could be a problem with long hot track days
Do you enjoy the multiair and presumably the fiat it's mounted to? Any significant trouble?
This one isn't mine. I'm actually a Fiat tech for a living but I do own a abarth. There aren't any real problems with the multiair. Most people mistake lack of proper maintenance for problems with a car. If you neglect oil they will sludge up and start giving you problems but even then a screen change and flush the ever loving E36 M3 out of it and most come back to life. Another thing people attribute to a failing multiair is if you let the car sit for 30ish or more days the multi air will lose its prime and the car won't start. Pull the fuel pump fuse and crank for a lil bit to build oil pressure back in it then it's fixed. They are fun lil cars and my recommendation when buying one is get one with 100k or more on it. They fall apart when they sit but hold up great of they are kept in service. The biggest issue is body electrical with the lights, they eat bulbs a lot. You will rarely see one with all its light working lol.
Evanuel9 said:
In reply to bobzilla :
So I got curious and did some digging and, according to edmunds at least, the rio is lighter than a gen 1 fit.
2410 lbs for the rio: https://www.edmunds.com/kia/rio/2013/st-200419056/features-specs/
Vs
2500 ish for the fit: https://www.edmunds.com/honda/fit/2007/features-specs/
That is incorrect on both accounts. Gen 1 in race trim with 160lb driver is 2596. Rio with 240lbs of driver is 2783.
Fit:
Rio:
In reply to Evanuel9 :
Thinking of you, I stopped and took pictures of this today.
I should have started with this picture...
This is then a rare combo. The upper, Touring model with a manual vs a auto trans. This then give cruise control that the lesser, Sport model did not get at all.
It is sitting out front of a JunkYard. I bought a Prius once from the front lot of this JY. I then sold that Prius to GRMer, Indy-Guy.
The story I got...Owner took it to a Firestone Shop for new tires and alignment. I has brand new tire...winter tread tires. This JY picked the car up from the Firestone. When they picked it up, the front strut tophat bolts were thread stripped. JY has no real idea why they were stripped but Firestone store seems to be the blame.
Firestone Winterguards
JY added a cheapo set of loaded struts and they say the car is great otherwise. I started the car. Moved it a few feet forward and back (checking clutch) and all seems right. No CELs or dashboard lights.
Notice shinny new strut top hat bolts in this picture. Though the picture doesn't show it, both struts are equally new/shinny.
Wrapify
Windshield is cracked low but full width.
2011 model year
Vin
2011 w/169k. Located 30 minutes West of Cleveland, OH. When I asked price the JY guy opened with $2.8k. I did not balk or challenge because I had not looked at the car yet. Experience tells me there is room to move on that price. Though this is a rare combo of Touring with manual to the normal world (not GRMers) this is a non-sporty car with a manual trans and manual trans cars are real slow to sell.
I went out to FB to do some price comparison and it turns out its been on FB for 5 weeks already
Evanuel9 said:
In reply to WOW Really Paul? :
Swapping a head genuinely sounds like a really fun project that I'd enjoy but I'm not sure if my parents would allow it.
Chassis wise, how does the abarth compare to the mcs. I know the mcs has IRS and a lower CG but the abarth is smaller and lighter.
It's more in depth than a head, and technically I think it's half a head. The stock ecu cannot be tuned to run the t-jet conversions and requires the Euro Bosch one. The mechanical side of things seems to be an upper head(cam girdles), cams, timing set, and the ecu. Admittedly what I know is from talking with Bob Zecca @ DICorse about the conversion as they have done the development work on the swap.
FWIW, I am also a huge fan of the ecotec LSJ cars(supercharged), specifically the Ion Redline for its slightly longer wheelbase than the Cobalt. It's a shame they made so few of them, because those cars were absolutely amazing despite weighing almost 3k lbs on a fwd platform.
In reply to RonnieFnD :
Only had rear running lights go on mine, it was weird, they weren't burned out, just the filaments broken. And yea, they do like regular changes of good oil. I just use Motul on a 2500mi schedule.
fatallightning said:
There's the often forgotten Scion IA which is a Mazda 2. I've seen a couple cleanly modified Yaris hatches. More lukewarm rather than hot.
IIRC only the trunk car is a Mazda. The hatchbacks are Toyotas.
ProDarwin said:
Evanuel9 said:
In reply to ProDarwin :
I've read that the fiat is 2500, mazda2 is 2200, fit is 2400, cooper is 2550 ish (though I've read the S is heavier - can't find concrete info). You're right for the FiST though - base fiesta is in the 2500 range but the FiST is 2700.
Any 90s recommendations?
How would I assess rollover prone-ness?
The simplest ball-park method is to look at track width vs. height.
Another method is to look at which of those cars the SCCA has banned, or banned the non-performance variant of. IIRC base Fiesta, base 500, and all Sonics are banned. Surprisingly the Fit is not, but given its dimensions it would not surprise me to see one roll. You can easily find videos of a Fiesta ST bicycling and a 500 Abarth rolling over.
90s recommendation? Any Honda hatch.
Anything can get on two wheels
Snrub
Dork
1/26/24 6:33 p.m.
Evanuel9 said:
In reply to Snrub :
From what I've read, though, the base fiesta is not great compared to its competition (Honda fit and mazda2) in terms of chassis and handling
I'm not suggesting the base Fiesta, just describing why the FiST weighs a little more and what causes it to weigh more. You could get a base fiesta (eg. a 1.0l ecoboost) and swap over FiST suspension stuff.
For a daily driver I'd stay away from a 1990s car. Crash standards have come a long way. For example: https://youtu.be/xidhx_f-ouU?si=_Q91gl3DZ0Vt99x2
My wife has a 2016 Accent and my mother in law has a 2013. They're good cars for them, but honestly they're not the most exciting. They're the platform mate to the Rio. I have no idea what they'd be like with better suspension. 16" vs 14" tires makes a surprising difference.
In reply to Pete. (l33t FS) :
Truth, I have watched multiple e30/36's do that in DSP
Pete. (l33t FS) said:
Anything can get on two wheels
Yep.
Personally, I wouldn't want to tempt fate with a car more prone to that. Thats why I suggest factoring this into the decision making.
In reply to John Welsh :
Wow, that is a hilarious little car. New shocks seems nice and not a terrible price, especially with room to move. Unfortunately my parents have limited the radius to 100 miles of chicago.
In reply to WOW Really Paul? :
Got it, seems like a really cool project but might be outside my scope right now.
The ecotec LSJ cars are neat, but if I'm already up to 3000 lbs I can go RWD with an e36 or e46. The benefits of FWD cars in this price range are down to weight. 3000 lbs ruins that
In reply to Pete. (l33t FS) :
Yep, the hatch is a yaris.
In reply to Pete. (l33t FS) :
That's awesome!!! Can;'t imagine it's very fast....
