Any truth to Singh Grooves

http://ecomodder.com/forum/showthread.php/project-60-60-xfi-metro-singh-grooves-4935.html

Not sure. I've not seen or experienced any first hand. It seems to go against the general grain of what is considered "optimum" by most. However there is a part of me that believes that while we can theorize what happens in a combustion chamber, I think we don't truly understand it fully and what changes can be made to improve the process.

To me this means that if someone can actually show quantifiable proof that these changes make a difference then I might be willing to give it more than just a passing interest.

More links on the subject:

Allpar Head Porting series If you search around for the guy doing the porting work, you'll find more posts by him and some of the sites he visits.

fiat22turbo wrote: Not sure. I've not seen or experienced any first hand. It seems to go against the general grain of what is considered "optimum" by most. However there is a part of me that believes that while we can theorize what happens in a combustion chamber, I think we don't truly understand it fully and what changes can be made to improve the process.

I've had a few classes on in cylinder performance. There are plenty of folks who understand flame front propogation, flame intitiation site generation, and blah blah blah. I've seen the instrumented engines with high speed cameras with "portholes" in the heads.

I dunno.. I've met a whole bunch of smart performance folks, PHD's etc...,, I'd bet one of them in at an OEM would use these grooves if they work. Heck.. I'd bet they'd use them on our 60 liter natural gas engines, even a minute gain in fuel econ is a massive win with a 60 liter.

on a similar subject (same car, different mod) : whats with the air intake rotated around? i thought it was better to get cool air for the engine, not warm air from behind the radiator.

If it reads like snake oil, it probably is.

http://www.somender-singh.com/

http://forums.turbobricks.com/showthread.php?t=66779&highlight=singh+groove

so I just linked to a volvo forum, what's it to ya?

over 900 replies. grab a 12-pack and unplug the phone.

the linked pdf in there is good.

http://somender-singh.com/uploadfiles/Herning_Tests_Analysis.pdf

it shows gains in bsfc but... CO is higher.....

I'll stand by my original comments, if it worked, emmissions, eff, and power, the oems would do it...

In theory the grooves make sense, but since I haven't tested them myself I can't testify to their efficacy. But, I plan on machining some grooves in my 383's heads. the bottom line is that they can't hurt but with the junk info on the internet its hard to tell if they help.

ignorant wrote: I'll stand by my original comments, if it worked, emmissions, eff, and power, the oems would do it...

While that is a common argument on the internet, having worked for 7 automotive manufacturers as a fuel systems engineer, I can safely say that automotive manufacturers are about 15 years behind the engineers. We fight tooth and nail to bring new things to the market and the bean counters constantly shoot us down.

In the "OEM" market as so many like to call it is ruled by bean counters, not logic, science, or truth. Do your own research.

curtis73 wrote:

ignorant wrote: I'll stand by my original comments, if it worked, emmissions, eff, and power, the oems would do it...

While that is a common argument on the internet, having worked for 7 automotive manufacturers as a fuel systems engineer, I can safely say that automotive manufacturers are about 15 years behind the engineers. We fight tooth and nail to bring new things to the market and the bean counters constantly shoot us down. In the "OEM" market as so many like to call it is ruled by bean counters, not logic, science, or truth. Do your own research.

I work for THE independant HD engine manufacturer. Our products are engines.. not vehicles.. We live and die by BSFC. Achievng BSFC targets and emissions standards are what put our engines ahead of the big yellow junk kitty, which if you'll notice, no longer produce over the road engines(or will stop soon). I stand by my original comments.