In a mental exercise I’m building a ~$2,500 4-seater, manual any-wheel-drive in the lightest combination I can think of that’s also fairly common.
Having never owned a vehicle aside from my Samurais that I tried to keep weight down, I’m interested in what it’s like to drive a truly light, nimble, “tossable” car.
Obviously looking at small imports with a few domestics like the Focus that meet the parameters above. 4x100 or 5x114.3, 4x108 seem to be the most common.
ebonyandivory said:In a mental exercise I’m building a ~$2,500 4-seater, manual any-wheel-drive in the lightest combination I can think of that’s also fairly common.
Having never owned a vehicle aside from my Samurais that I tried to keep weight down, I’m interested in what it’s like to drive a truly light, nimble, “tossable” car.
Obviously looking at small imports with a few domestics like the Focus that meet the parameters above. 4x100 or 5x114.3, 4x108 seem to be the most common.
Best chassis IMO is the Saturn SL series. Very light for the size. (2300-2500lb depending) Common 4x100 wheels in a not-weird offset, and I'd like to say 57mm hub pilot, because I had SC2 wheels on one of my VWs for a while because they are very light for a 15x6 and I bought a set of five for $100.
I loved them when I was younger. As I grew accustomed to German cars, I find that if I drive a Saturn now that I cannot stand all the road noise. They did not put very much sound deadening in them, even in the LS models.
The 5th generation Tercel is 1800 pounds stock, thereabouts. Fairly common, or at least not too uncommon. The wheels are 4x100 too.
My recipe for light and under your budget would be 95-99 Tercel, aluminum/aluminum 1nzfe from an Echo/xA/xB/Yaris to replace the iron blocked 5efe stock engine (2/3 mounts are the same), and NA Miata BBS or hollow spoke wheels. Those wheels aren’t $100/set cheap, but they aren’t outrageous either.
It’s a very small car though. So you and 3 others would have to be small or very friendly.
That’s so far. Any light and somewhat common factory or cheap aftermarket wheels recommendations out there?
ebonyandivory said:That’s so far. Any light and somewhat common factory or cheap aftermarket wheels recommendations out there?
You will not easily find lighter wheels than stock Saturn wheels. I don't think 1st-gen Prius wheels are much lighter.
1st-gen Insight wheels feel like you are holding air but they are very expensive. And once you put non-Insight tires on them, the weight advantage vanishes quickly.
Serious answer:
Honda EG Hatch, 2094lbs. And it takes common, small 4x100 wheels.
Less serious answer:
Over 5 million Minis were built and weighed up to 1512lbs. Small tires on 4x100 wheels so your overall unsprung package is very light. And they are SUPER nimble and fun little cars. Go for a later 1275 with the highly superior rod-link transmission.
Non serious answer:
Over 21 million VW beetles were built(somewhat common?) and weigh 1760lbs. Power can be increase without increasing weight as well.
In reply to buzzboy :
Had a ‘73 Beetle. I’d love another but I need more modern for a daily with occasional kid transport when we’re not in the minivan
buzzboy said:Serious answer:
Honda EG Hatch, 2094lbs. And it takes common, small 4x100 wheels.
Where do you find a cheap one, though? One that is actually a running, driving car that an adult would drive, not some hacked-up junk that should be in the recycling yard in the interest of public safety.
1g Neon. It it's not already it can be swapped to 4x100 as they did have that for a couple of years. Probably harder to find than a Focus at this point but also easier to make run a given lap time on pavement. Unless you stumble upon a $2500 SVT Focus which i've personally verified is slightly faster than a stock sohc/5spd neon sedan in a straight line since my neon needed an intake and a muffler to run dead even with it.
They have a better stock suspension package and roomier back seat.
In reply to Vigo :
Does all of the above go out the window with 2g Neons?
I do not know about 2500.. but you can get some cheap Abarth 500s out there. 2500 pounds, 160ish hp. four seats, a small hatch.
How cheap is cheap as far as wheels? Kosei K1s and Enkei RPF1s are both stupid light. And as far as new options go, they're not super expensive (under $200 each for the RPF1, I've seen K1s under $150).
Not trying to be a broken record but any factory WHEELS that are lightweight? It’s pretty easy to get weights on actual vehicles but I’m also looking into common WHEELS that are cheap and light.
You guys are always great at knowing those little secrets like this!
And while we’re at it, what’s your go-to lightweight cheap seats?
Maybe I can start a thread compiling lightweight and common, semi-universal parts
In reply to rslifkin :
That to ME is not cheap. Not for a $2,500 car anyway.
ebonyandivory said:Not trying to be a broken record but any factory WHEELS that are lightweight? It’s pretty easy to get weights on actual vehicles but I’m also looking into common WHEELS that are cheap and light.
Saturn S-series wheels are light.
So are Escort ZX2 wheels. Nice lightweight wheels, possibly forged.
Toyota Prius wheels are also light, and Insight wheels are super-light, but people want silly money for those because they are popular as rear wheels for Civic drag cars.
Any Miata wheel,
MINI Cooper "holies",
VW snowflakes aren't bad,
I don't know about lightweight and cheap factory rims, but 15" Konig Helium are like 11 pounds each and run <$100 new. They are also popular enough, especially with the early Miata crowd, that you may be able to find some used at a decent discount.
I know e&i was looking for OEM wheels... and I think the main culprits have been given by Knurled... other than maybe eg civic HX's? but I think those are 14x6's?
I thought spec miata had helped developed a pretty good sets of cheapish and light-ish 15" 4x100 wheels... since they tend to pinata about some, and need replacements?
The lightest Saturn S series wheel is the Sawtooth. About 14lbs, and dirt cheap when you find them.
In reply to sleepyhead :
Hmmmmmm!
ebonyandivory said:In a mental exercise I’m building a ~$2,500 4-seater, manual any-wheel-drive in the lightest combination I can think of that’s also fairly common.
Having never owned a vehicle aside from my Samurais that I tried to keep weight down, I’m interested in what it’s like to drive a truly light, nimble, “tossable” car.
Obviously looking at small imports with a few domestics like the Focus that meet the parameters above. 4x100 or 5x114.3, 4x108 seem to be the most common.
I'll admit, I'm not going to read the thread because of how vague this is. No size or offset requirements, what size tire or type do you want to run, etc etc
fd rx7 wheels are pretty light like 16lbs and are OEM.
But, really Enkei RPF1's are a great wheel, gots the strength, looks, price, and weight going for them.
Does all of the above go out the window with 2g Neons?
The 4x100 thing does i believe, because i think the outer CV spline changed and the axles are slightly wider so I dont think you can swap 1g knuckles directly onto a 2g. As far as 'goodness', i would say a 2g R/T is roughly as good as a base model 1g with very basic suspension mods, but others may have stronger opinions in favor of the 2g r/t. The 2g base model is just a heavier car with no performance upside at all.
In reply to ebonyandivory :
Looks like they went down a few $$. I bought a set of these for my Miata earlier this year and paid $85 each. Now going to 7" adds $100 to the price as they are maximum width for STS and I guess that makes it premium $$.
Carson said:The 5th generation Tercel is 1800 pounds stock, thereabouts. Fairly common, or at least not too uncommon. The wheels are 4x100 too.
My recipe for light and under your budget would be 95-99 Tercel, aluminum/aluminum 1nzfe from an Echo/xA/xB/Yaris to replace the iron blocked 5efe stock engine (2/3 mounts are the same), and NA Miata BBS or hollow spoke wheels. Those wheels aren’t $100/set cheap, but they aren’t outrageous either.
It’s a very small car though. So you and 3 others would have to be small or very friendly.
Yes!! I've been saying this for year's. Also an early base Toyota Echo is under 2000lbs.
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