Anyone autcrossing a Ford or GM automatic?

While I'd prefer a manual for the fun factor when I drive I recognized that in autocross once you have control of the trans an auto is faster.

So what are you using to get rid of the "little old lady" factor of your Ford or GM automatics?

Well, there are so many it’s hard to give a proper answer.

i had a powerglide and it stayed in 1 the whole time.  Now I have a 4l65e and it’s programmed for a 0 second 1-2 shift and to hold gears when placed there manually so i can start in 1 then hit 2nd and keep it there with the shifter.  Some of them will shift on you even if you manually put the shifter in a gear.  

In reply to Patrick :

The fact that some will shift on you even if you've manually put it in a gear is why I asked what controllers people were using.

HPtuners is supposed to allow you control things on the GM, but no one on their forum has done it so who knows.  HPT isn't the best about giving answers.  They leave it to you to figure out.

Up to ‘96 the AW4 in the XJ Cherokee can easily be modified to hold 1st or 2nd and we already know they can be autocrossed!

Same transmission in I believe Volvo 960’s

In reply to carguy123 :

I use HPT but honestly forget how I did it because it was 2 years ago and my laptop with my tunes only works a small percentage of the time.  I really need to transfer all that stuff to the new one so i can read them

Using a street vehicle on the autocross makes it harder.

You can setup an auto trans for autocross fairly easily, but most people don't do it in their street vehicle. Manual valve bodies, or setting up an electronic shifter on a solenoid controlled trans would make shifts very very fast. Not so great for a street car.

With my gearing, I only use 1st in autocross on launch. Its pretty much 2nd gear the rest of the time.

I haven't experienced an electronic trans that ever shifted as fast as a hydraulic one.  I have had up to 9mph of lag time between when a shift was called out and when it occurred.  (1-2 shift had to be calibrated to shift at 51 if you wanted it to shift at 60mph)

It's something to do with solenoid lag, they can only move so fast.   When you shift a hydraulic trans, the spool moves and hydraulic pressure goes where it needs to be immediately.

The 4R70/ 4R75 do a pretty decent job in my opinion. Holding first to 45 or 50 means you can stay there on most courses (that I've run). Doing the Jmod or getting an X4 tuner (or both) are supposed to make a huge difference, but I really don't see how it could be better unless you need drag racing style launches or have a lot of power spinning things around. 

Stick the shifter in 2 and go, it would shift at 45 or so if it needed to and would happily spin the tires with hard go pedal application anywhere on course. 

As always the answer is Mazda. The 5-speed auto in my 5 (same as the 3 and 6) has a manual mode that's real. I've autocrossed it and it will just bounce off of redline in whatever gear you are in until you upshift. It won't downshift automatically until you come to a complete stop, then it will engage 1st. No tuner needed!

I've also autocrossed the 4R70W from the P71 Crown Vic and with a J-Mod (enlarging holes in the valve body) and a tuner (SUperchips IIRC) I was able to control it staying in 1st or 2nd if that was selected on the stalk. Worked great!

Audi manumatic is terrible. The cool aunt has an ~15 A4 Sportline (? It's a turbo, 18's, red, nice body, paddle shifters) and it won't hold a gear in manual mode at all. Auto up and downshifts no matter what you tell the transmission to do. Garbage.

The new Jag F-Type auto autocrossed well and held the gears, but I only have 2 laps with it.

Porsche PDK is the ultimate answer. The Tiptronic sucked, but PDK is a manual trans with dual clutches that's all weaponized. Bangs gears like a madman and does what you tell it.

Ford and GM are the only ones I'm concerned with because it will be one of the 2 engines.

I have the Gm in my CTS and it downshifts when you don't want it to even when it is in manual mode. 

Shift delay is another issue altogether, but I know that can be adjusted.
 

The auto in my 06 P71 stays in whatever gear you put it in. It's actually geared very well for most autocross courses. Put it in 1st and leave it there.

The auto in my wife's 03 Mustang is the same way, but it needs a gear between 1st and 2nd. First will have you bouncing off the limiter for the entire course. The downshift from 2nd to 1st is unpredictable and rather harsh. 

So no rev matching like the GM unit?

Javelin said:

As always the answer is Mazda. The 5-speed auto in my 5 (same as the 3 and 6) has a manual mode that's real. I've autocrossed it and it will just bounce off of redline in whatever gear you are in until you upshift. It won't downshift automatically until you come to a complete stop, then it will engage 1st. No tuner needed!

And the shifter moves in the correct direction - back is upshift, forward is downshift.

I have to think carefully every time I manually shift my Volvo because, like most manufacturers, the shift pattern is backwards.  My muscle memory is for a PRN123 shift pattern.

Ford c4s and aod (non e) hold whatever gear there put in from the factory. Newer transmissions I'm unsure of. 

My dad had one the top autocross cars here back in the day 69 427 corvette th400. It won lots in the stock and prepared classes. My dad also won a couple of championships in the old ice dice series here with a 66 95 hp corvair powerglide.

MS GPIO?

In reply to ProDarwin :

The only real problem with that is that it is pretty limited.  I would absolutely adore to put a 5R44 in my car, but MegaShift/MSGPIO won't control one.  They can't really do clutch-to-clutch shift transmissions yet.

And then there is still the solenoid lag issue.  You could probably extract the maximum shift speed by cranking the line pressure up until the pump squeaks, but then you're wasting horsepower.

Nothing really beats a (all hydraulic) manual valvebody and a ratchet shifter.  Unfortunately this pretty much limits you to non-overdrive transmissions, since Brand F has seen fit to make all of their worthwhile overdrive transmissions have only three forward-gear detents for shifter backwards compatibility (the company that makes a new bellhousing pattern for damned near everything is suddenly concerned about backwards compatible shifters???) and the only manual valvebodies I have seen for GM overdrives are for 200-4Rs thanks to the Grand National brigade.  If you have a 700-R4 then you are SOL.

Javelin said:Porsche PDK is the ultimate answer. The Tiptronic sucked, but PDK is a manual trans with dual clutches that's all weaponized. Bangs gears like a madman and does what you tell it.

 

And is there a way to control it when transplanted in another car?

Knurled. said:

Javelin said:

As always the answer is Mazda. The 5-speed auto in my 5 (same as the 3 and 6) has a manual mode that's real. I've autocrossed it and it will just bounce off of redline in whatever gear you are in until you upshift. It won't downshift automatically until you come to a complete stop, then it will engage 1st. No tuner needed!

And the shifter moves in the correct direction - back is upshift, forward is downshift.

 

I have to think carefully every time I manually shift my Volvo because, like most manufacturers, the shift pattern is backwards.  My muscle memory is for a PRN123 shift pattern.

Had an old (well, relatively) Chrysler tiptronic-type car in.  I noted with interest that its manumatic mode had you move the shifter right to upshift, left to downshift.

Let me explain.

When driving a manual trans, when you do an upshift in the same gate, you pull the lever straight back.  When you do a downshift in the same gate, you shove the lever straight forward.

This is the way sequential-shift manual transmissions do it, every proper manual valvebody automatic does it, and Mazda's manumatic does it.  Every other manumatic I have seen (and I have been paying attention) does it backwards: push forward to upshift, back to downshift.  For a driver who is used to manual transmissions, this is like making the steering wheel turn left to make the car go right.

When driving a manual trans, when you do an upshift across the gate, you move the lever to the right.  When you downshift across the gate, you move the lever to the left.

This is the way the Chrysler manumatics do it.  Right is upshift, left is downshift.  Chrysler engineers are incredibly good, second only to Chrysler beancounters in skill.

I did a ride-along in a 73 Corvette at an autocross.  He had a 4L80E that he did a manual valve body and had a switch for the TC lockup.  Once he got going he would flip the TC switch to lock it up and manually selected his gears.

When you were in it, it truly acted like a twin clutch or sequential box.  Fully locked, instant gear changes on command.... I felt like I was in an Audi (except for the ripped leather seats, mouse pee smell, and open-headered 355.)

He did mention that he had to be really careful with gear changes and had to be sure to not to need a gear change in a turn.  The instant torque change had the tendency to send the rear wheels to the front, so he had some valve body and suspension tweaks in mind.

I also did a ride along in a 94 vette GS with a factory 4L60E.  He just put it in 2nd and went.  There were two spots on some layouts where he hit the rev limiter, but he said that was faster than trying to go to 3rd for a second and then let it kick back down on the exit.  He only drove that one parking lot in Pittsburgh and the cones never changed dramatically, so that might not be a wise choice for someone who does a lot of varying cone layouts, but he consistently took home wins.

In reply to Knurled. :

I never experienced a single one of those "side-gate" autos that was worth anything.

Mom had a Caddy SRX (I think that's what it was... the CUV that looked like a steampunk cartoon mouse)

That manumatic was the biggest joke I have ever seen.  It made me laugh so frequently.  Response time could be measured in Lithic Periods.  The time it took to shift from 3rd to 2nd by bumping the shifter was about the same amount of time it took Netflix to make season 2 of Stranger Things and Jessica Jones combined.  Many of those manumatics are just a switch that sends a "suggestion" to the ECM, then after it uses a floppy disk, a punch card, and a reel-to-reel tape deck to compile information, it will execute a shift about as quickly as the Titanic was able to steer away from that iceberg.  (too soon?)

Hyperbole aside, is it possible to reprogram those blip shift autos to actually do what you tell it to?

In reply to Curtis :

The problem is the hardware in the trans, not the programming.  You can watch it in a scantool operating the solenoids as soon as you hit the lever.

Playing with my flappy stick for the past few months, I realized that it actually takes about the same amount of time as a manual shift.  The difference is that you are still accelerating for a moment after you call out the shift.

In automatic mode, just as with my non-Geartronic equipped S40, you can manually "call out" for a downshift by stabbing the accelerator with the same motion as if you were rev-matching a downshift.  It WILL downshift and hold it for a few seconds.