Peanu_Keeyes said:5 reminding myself it's a privilege to be out here at all in any capacity!
I need to keep in this mindset more often in this hobby. Good reminder.
Peanu_Keeyes said:5 reminding myself it's a privilege to be out here at all in any capacity!
I need to keep in this mindset more often in this hobby. Good reminder.
So this video is typical of my track day experience.
At minute 14:20 you can see me up the tail pipe of a McLaren in the braking zone; this is the type of thing we are discussing. It's not a big deal.
I run the Rio. All 110whp, 2750lbs with me in it. All momentum all the time. With GL I run Sundae Cup, so we are usually running last run group for TA and are all fairly close in times etc. It's a lot of fun hanging with buddies lap after lap like that.
For SCCA weekends I get slipped into advanced group because I have the experience to handle it (apparently) and its usually a smaller group, but being out on Gingerman with C8 Z's, Roush mustangs and P-cars with spoolie bois is..... intimidating. Just makes you keep your head up, and checking your mirrors and track planning on when that next speedy boi is going to catch you. I find it fun trying to plan their overtake and where it'll happen. The nice thing in Rio is you have plenty of time to look around and make plans.
Another NASA Mid-A/WDCR SCCA member here. VIR, Summit Point and Dominion are my playgrounds. I definitely haven't had nearly the bad experiences some here have. Skill-wise I'm somewhere in the bottom-to-middle of the HPDE2/intermediate groups. At VIR NASA Mid-A seems to do a pretty good job separating cars at grid. There's usually 3 lines and regardless when you show up they seem to point you to a specific line. Dominion and SP seem more prone to trains but I think that's the nature of the track. At those I try to line up fairly close to the front. I'd rather be the guy giving 5 point bys on the main straight than being stuck at the end of a train.
I've had far worse experience at Track Nights. Guys showing up in full race 911 GT3 cars in Novice. MOPAR guys lining up coming out of a corner to drag race down the next straight. Passing without point bys. I get that it's a super convenient and inexpensive format (why I was attracted to it) but I've had much more fun since going back to traditional DEs over the weekend.
bobzilla said:I run the Rio. All 110whp, 2750lbs with me in it. The nice thing in Rio is you have plenty of time to look around and make plans.
Amen. I've run Road Atlanta in a low hp car. On the back stretch I had time to look around, make plans for cars to pass me, make plans for dinner. I even got my taxes done before the braking zone.
Any feedback on Ozark International for low power momentum cars at track days with hih hp cars? I will finally be getting the NA miata based Locost 7 out for a trackday. it will be with the Muatang club during Shelbyfest so they may spin out on the first corner and crash into a light pole. talking with the organizer we already agreed it's probably best to put ne at the end of the group but I don't know if OIR favors momentum cars or hp cars. I expect I will be much better in the corners but lose out on the straights due to lower power and much worse aero.
In reply to Tom1200 :
"Scuderia Pokey" 
In reply to NorseDave :
There was a little Pokey toy in the Datsun when we bought it (38 years ago).
I'm a long time Ferrari F1 fan (since the Lauda days).
Ha! I was thinking pokey, as in slow (compared to the mega-hp cars going by, not your driving)
As a beginner in a somewhat not slow but not fast in a straight line car here's my take:
There'll likely be at least one car holding everyone up and slow to give point bys. May not be malicious as being a beginner on track is overwhelming. As long as you're faster than him or her and point people in obviously faster cars while you're held up in the train, you'll get plenty of open track to learn.
There may also be 1-2 regular fwd commodity sedans or luxury sedans mixed in.
Cars are so fast now, when you give a point by you barely have to lift off the throttle if at all (depending on the car), so it barely affects your lap.
Don't let how fast modern cars have come along deter you from a track day!
SKJSS (formerly Klayfish) said:Amen. I've run Road Atlanta in a low hp car. On the back stretch I had time to look around, make plans for cars to pass me, make plans for dinner. I even got my taxes done before the braking zone.
I haven't run Road America in a while (NA Miata) because this. Lots of time to think about setting up for the next corner, and time enough to unpack lunch and eat on the front straight while the fast stuff goes by.
In the past couple of years most of the events I've run have had open passing in the top advanced group, and I've gotten really good at watching my mirrors and pointing the fast cars past pretty much the whole session after the first couple of laps. Lately I usually move down to the mid group and find I'm pointing bunches of cars past on the straights. Creating additional run groups shortens everyone's track time, so I understand the reluctance to add a low HP group.
I miss the Exocet. It was a lot more fun running with the big dogs. Sigh.
In reply to NorseDave :
It started becuase of the toy but it was indeed partially becuase of the low power. When I took it to SCCA drivers school in 91 it had the bone stock 68hp motor in it.
I've been running my daily-driver FR-S (bone stock engine) in local events, and find plenty of Miatas, older BMWs, and hot hatches to play with. Oregon Raceway Park is a wonderful equalizer of a track, with tons of elevation change, and multiple shortish straights, none of which are truly straight!
I've had good luck avoiding the slow driver in an insane car holding me up everywhere twisty and vice-versa by running in the middle/intermediate run group instead of the slow/novice run group. I always request to grid near the back, I watch my mirrors and prepare for point-bys, and I will pull into the pits for a sec before heading back out if needed for myself or others, and find it to be a much better experience overall than falling into the "190whp and 200TW tires won't hang in anything but slow/novice" trap. YMMV. 
jwagner (Forum Supporter) said:SKJSS (formerly Klayfish) said:Amen. I've run Road Atlanta in a low hp car. On the back stretch I had time to look around, make plans for cars to pass me, make plans for dinner. I even got my taxes done before the braking zone.
I haven't run Road America in a while (NA Miata) because this. Lots of time to think about setting up for the next corner, and time enough to unpack lunch and eat on the front straight while the fast stuff goes by.
In the past couple of years most of the events I've run have had open passing in the top advanced group, and I've gotten really good at watching my mirrors and pointing the fast cars past pretty much the whole session after the first couple of laps. Lately I usually move down to the mid group and find I'm pointing bunches of cars past on the straights. Creating additional run groups shortens everyone's track time, so I understand the reluctance to add a low HP group.
I miss the Exocet. It was a lot more fun running with the big dogs. Sigh.
Yup. My HPDE cars are either my DD which is a BMW 128i or a '98 Boxster I just purchased which is track prepped. Neither one are "slow" per se, but compared to a C7 Z06 they are dogs. Don't get me wrong, I still love Road Atlanta and will run every chance I get. However, I prefer a track like Atlanta Motorsports Park. Highly technical, only one small straight. It's fun to eat up those "big dogs" in my measly bone-stock 128i.
In reply to jwagner (Forum Supporter) :
I loved Road America in the Rio. Rain was even more funner. Carousel in the rain was a dance on the throttle to keep it on the edge and yes, I am a wuss and did lift for the kink.
FieroReinke said:Any feedback on Ozark International for low power momentum cars at track days with hih hp cars? I will finally be getting the NA miata based Locost 7 out for a trackday. it will be with the Muatang club during Shelbyfest so they may spin out on the first corner and crash into a light pole. talking with the organizer we already agreed it's probably best to put ne at the end of the group but I don't know if OIR favors momentum cars or hp cars. I expect I will be much better in the corners but lose out on the straights due to lower power and much worse aero.
From a sim race I did at that track the main thing I remember from it was the low runoff room and the number of blind corners, so it may not be the best choice for the first time out in a freshly built and unproven car...
I do understand, but I've had very few issues on many tracks in many areas in my Honda Fit! I'll also say this, I'm always happy to see the sports cars and exotics out for track days! I'd much rather see that vs them head to a coffee event 1 day a month!
Last year from April to November I covered over 20,000 miles and did 9 track days and 1 Time Attack event in a Honda Fit. All but one of these tracks were firsts for me, including a number of my bucket list tracks. NJMP, Watkins Glen, Mid Ohio, Road America, Waterford Hills, Gingerman, Grattan, Pit Race, Pocono, and back to Pitt Race for that Gridlife event. I was signed up for VIR as well, but found play in the right front wheel bearing, so I just repacked the Fit. At over 200,000 miles on the chassis, I'm not mad at something wearing out!
Some were open track events, one run group, and the rest I was running in the advanced groups. I had the least power of any of the cars in my group, always. But I'm pretty quick in a Fit very comfortable on track and I'm really good at not allowing other drivers to sneak up on me. So yes, there are times where they will be held up, for 1 braking zone and that corner. But if you are alert and let them by as soon as your able, to me that is the key.
I always lean toward the side of not wanting to be in anyones way. This was a concern going into my first bigger/faster event at Watkins Glen. But quickly realized there was really only couple places where this could be an issue and payed extra attention approaching those areas!
I was guessing, like the OP was saying, that a number of these tracks would not be much fun in the lower power car. Not sure I even wanted to bother signing up. I was happy to be wrong. Even Watkins and Road America were a blast! Yes, the worst place was exiting the toe of the boot at Watkins, uphill out of a slower turn! I just remained vigilant on pointing actual sports car by! If they are properly driving their higher powered sports cars, they will not be around me very long!
You paid for the track time just like they did...enjoy that time and improve yourself in the process!
I think Advanced HPDE groups with open passing are the worst environment around from this standpoint. I guess the idea is to get people ready to race, but there's such a huge differential in car speed and driver experience that it's almost begging for problems. Actual racing usually involves more closely matched cars and drivers.
Road Atlanta is my favorite track to race and my least favorite for HPDE. In a low power car you're pointing all the power cars by on the back straight, only to be up their tailpipe by turn 1 and stuck behind them going 50% through the playground between 1 and 7.
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