Has anyone raced Formula Vee? They seem like they'd be easy to wrench on and maintain. I saw one on Craigslist for 3k recently and regret not being able to snatch it up! The videos of races seem close and competitive.
Anyone know what they cost to run per race or season?
I drove my brother's Vee a few times at Lime Rock. Yes, easy to wrench on, parts are a plenty and sitting that close to the ground you feel like you're going faster than you really are.
Bad things? Open wheels. Put someone else's tire against your body, right between your front & rear tires and bad things happen. Maybe you get used to it.
Dan
I have a friend who races a BMW tin tops with me that also races a vee and sits on the safety committee for FRCCA. He did a one page guest appearance in the mag extolling their virtues a few years back. Those guys are pretty passionate about them and the argument for cost savings is hard to argue with. They used to do a beginner school at Pocono where you rent a car and do lead follow, then some open laps and a "fun" race. He was actively recruiting at BMW events and it seemed like a pretty friendly bunch.
http://www.formularacecarclubofamerica.com/
I think they are northeast only given they run under the EMRA banner and given that you are in SD... bit of a commute. Could be a useful resource for info though.
Tim got his vintage license with a Formula Vee. Ours was a Zink, and he credits it with making him a better driver since you don't have horsepower to make up for mistakes. I also remember the group as a very good bunch who valued the fun factor over trophies. Costs were low at the time, but this was nearly 20 years ago so numbers wouldn't be valid today. Suffice it to say that Tommy was a baby and we couldn't afford much, so that's the route we took.
One of the best groups is Monoposto Racing. They organize series, and are also a great resource for information.
Also, monoposto cars are the featured marque at The Classic Motorsports Mitty this coming spring at Road Atlanta. Brian Redman will be the grand marshall since he, like so many other racers of his era, got his start in this type of cars. There's a reason for that--it's great racing AND it's accessible for beginners and budget warriors.
Margie
Thank you for the responses guys. I am going to research how big the fields are here in the Midwest. I'm guessing they are nothing to brag about...
How fun are they to drive?
I've wrenched for a guy with a Vee for the last few years in the NER of SCCA. Didn't compete last year due to a variety of reasons. His is a front running regional car (and driver).
$3k won't even get you a decent motor. Unless you are interested in doing it all yourself and can be happy with running mid to rear of the pack regionally. Don't get me wrong the people involved are awesome but it's no longer a cheap entry level spec series. Too many parts are out of production/NLA and so are hoarded/command high prices (intake manifold for $1200 anyone?)
That's what turned me off. I looked into it, but they aren't popular around my area, and the costs have really gone up.
I've never raced a vee, only a decade or so in formula fords. My brother raced formula fords for years and switched to a vee a few years ago so I'll pass along his experience.
Startup cost:
If you are looking for an entry level Formula Car, FV is the most economical (f500 is close second). Key word is entry level, expect to pay the big bucks for a national contender. $3000-4000 can get you on track.
Parts and reliability:
Good news: even though the FV community are a bunch of hoarders of all things 1200cc air cooled and complain that parts are getting harder to find, the same guys will go out of their way to get you the parts and usually very reasonably priced. They want to keep FV alive, so they welcome new guys. The engines are simple and easy to maintain but not bullet proof.
Chassis and setup:
Per my brothers feedback, it handles like a purpose built race car. It's not an engineer class where setup is ultra critical. Axle beam in front doesn't allow for much adjustment. Typically a zero roll suspension is used in the rear using a single shock. Everyone is running the same basic setup. Everything is out in the open, so adjustments are simple. Remember to torque those rear axle nuts. Brake drum adjustments are regular activities. However, Vee chassis are tanks. I've seen some good pops over the year resulting in little damage. Must be that heavy front beam.
Also note: depending on the track, swapping out long and short boxes multiple times a season can get old.
Competition: FV is SCCA's third most popular class, so finding someone to race with should not be difficult. Look to spend some serious money to race up front. My brother was hoping the performance gap was going to be less switching from FF - FV. Not the case. It still cost a lot to run at the pointy end of the grid and mediocre equipment will only get you so far. I know my brother could be a national championship level contender with proper funding. $1500 custom manifolds, $8000 engines, fresh tires every weekend, gets you further up the grid. For many in FV, just being out there is enough satisfaction.
Towing: FV weighing about 800 lbs and less then 60" wide. Small open utility trailer behind a four cylinder car is all you need. Enclosed trailers are nice, but not necessary.
Ok, I covered some basic FV Pros, now for the CONs:
Looks:
FV's are not the most attractive formula cars at the racetrack.
Weekend cost: your weekend cost is going to very similar to a FF, FC, and some other lower cost formula classes. Not calculating any crash damage or engine mishaps, Entry fees, tires, gas, travel expenses, and food will be the same. With that said, would you rather spend a little more up front and race something like a formula ford if the cost per weekend to be a front runner, mid packer, or back marker is going to be similar? In other words, if I'm going to be satisfied bring up the rear of the field, would I enjoy driving a car that has a race designed gearbox, power to exit out of a turn, and more brakes then I need.
Honestly, this has kept me out of FV. I've tasted what many consider the next step from FV, so don't get discouraged by my comments above. FV is probably one of the best classes to start road racing because I've never raced a vee, only a decade or so in formula fords. My brother raced formula fords for years and switched to a vee a few years ago so I'll pass along his experience.
Startup cost:
If you are looking for an entry level Formula Car, FV is the most economical (f500 is not that bad either). Key word is entry level, expect to pay the big bucks for a national contender. $3000-4000 can get you on the track.
Parts and reliability:
Good news: even though the the FV community are a bunch of hoarders of all things 1200cc air cooled and complain that parts are getting harder to find, the same guys will go out their way to get you the parts and usually very reasonably priced.
of the low cost initial investment.
I've witnessed some great FV racing over the years, tempting me to buy a FV and join the fun.
Ian
Don't overlook formula first, either, bigger motors, formula ford wheels and tires with discs all around. Just not many of them out there. We are looking at switching the Vee over to a First.
I wonder how much cheaper a first is vs a ver....
One alternative that was not mentioned here is a vintage vee, while the costs are the same 3k for a solid mid packer 5k will land a good car and 8k should get a front runner. The big boost in vintage vees are the fact that they still run the fan and so the motors are far less stressed. Also vintage tires will go quite a few races. I have driven 5 different chassis from original Formcar to 1995 one off. One thing I will say is that the driving style in a vee is different than a Formula Ford. Vees have a much less hooked up feel and you tend to turn in and let the car roll through the corner I.E. set the trajectory and then don't touch it again till the corner exit. The key is getting the car on a trajectory with out skating the car around on the tires which is what makes them such a good learning tool they require all the focus, planning and finesse. I prefer the more aggressive style of an F500 which can be had for just for 5-9K, with 9K being a nationally competitive car. Vees are fun and even of you buy one and don't like it you can sell it for about what you paid.
Tom
Interesting, thanks for the feedback Tom. I am not looking to be nationally competitive as it will be a learner car and series for me. I would rather drive a slower car and learn to be fast than get into a faster series like FF and not improve.
Any idea what FV fields are like in the Midwest?
Find your local SCCA region's website and look for the archive of race results. There you'll find the truest information about class participation.
In the DC Region's MARRS series, a consolidation of the FV and F500/600 cars into the "Wings and Things group (C and D sports racers, formulas Atlantic/Continental/Ford/F/club Ford/S/Enterprises/Mazda/Star Mazda/1000) very effectively killed the class dead in our region.The FV paddock went from 20 cars in 2011 to 0-2 cars in 2013.
The speed differential in that run group can be 20 seconds between leader and back marker. On the way to overall group wins I've come close to lapping some cars 3 times. This just isn't fun, and for the less talented drivers it's borderline dangerous.
The guys running MARRS, despite it being "just a regional series" were mostly in close-to-nationals level cars. It wasn't cheap, easy racing in any regard.
I looked on the Mid-West Division web site and it appears there are 3regular competitors. The run group is Formula Ford, F500 and FV so not to bad of a mix only about 5-10 second spread. Mid America, Iowa Speedway and Brainerd (central division) appear to be the closet tracks to you.
As for multi car groups and speed differentials this is something that one must learn as well and I've been on both end of the equation; In my Datsun I've had cars come past 30-40 mph faster down the straights and when I ran a D-Sports Racer I remember being 20 seconds a lap faster than some of the formula vees. The key is to be predictable, the stick to the line holds very true and for the slower car you need to plan out places to check your mirrors. Come off of hairpins you can usually look across the track and see what is catching up. Regardless of which end your on all you have to do is look at time sheets and calculate what when to expect faster or slower cars.Road Racing is about more than just driving fast and some folks are at 100% just getting around the track at something resembling speed so you need to be aware of them or aware you one of them.
As for the expenses; if you can wrench and rebuild engines the actual parts for a Vee engine refresh are all of $200 and going with used race tires which will run you about $250.
Tom
Great info here.........
When I first read this I thought you were talking about Formula V
Hmmm well hopefully I get a job in an area with a more active Vee community in a few years. Thank you guys for all the info!
motomoron wrote: Find your local SCCA region's website and look for the archive of race results. There you'll find the truest information about class participation. In the DC Region's MARRS series, a consolidation of the FV and F500/600 cars into the "Wings and Things group (C and D sports racers, formulas Atlantic/Continental/Ford/F/club Ford/S/Enterprises/Mazda/Star Mazda/1000) very effectively killed the class dead in our region.The FV paddock went from 20 cars in 2011 to 0-2 cars in 2013. The speed differential in that run group can be 20 seconds between leader and back marker. On the way to overall group wins I've come close to lapping some cars 3 times. This just isn't fun, and for the less talented drivers it's borderline dangerous. The guys running MARRS, despite it being "just a regional series" were mostly in close-to-nationals level cars. It wasn't cheap, easy racing in any regard.
I was JUST looking at getting started in V (vs spec miata or some other entry level series) when this thread popped up. I haven't been particularly sold on it but I'm in Northern VA and this has killed all hope!
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