So I found a really clean 1999 323i down in Kennesaw Georgia. Talk to the guy and it hasn't had the subframe reinforcement but he says that there is no sign of cracking, and that he is the second owner and the first one was an old man who didn't beat on it. I would likely have to find someone to weld in reinforcing plates once I get it up here. It also has 97,000 miles. If anyone can give advice on the subframe issues that would be very appreciated.
My parents have not yet approved the fly-and-drive idea, so it is tentative. However, I should get an answer this week. Also not sure if I want an e46 due to the subframe crack issues but I will try to make a decision. If that decision is yes I'd need to get it looked at, but I wanted to post about it to see if anyone is out there ahead of time.
If they say yes, is there anyone near there who could take a look at it for me? The parental approval is contingent on getting a seal of approval from someone who looks at it before I get down to georgia. If it's good I'd fly down and drive home. The guy said he is available on weekends (or this saturday specifically).
If you can and are willing, please email me or let me know in the thread and I'll email you. Thanks in advance!
1999 323i in Kennesaw GA
That looks incredibly clean. Zero leaks.
I would be extremely surprised a 323, especially that one, would have any cracks on the chassis.
Two things that jumped out at me, not bad/just noticing, is that it looks like it has an aftermarket radio and the passenger airbag is peeled on the top towards the windshield. Ask if the airbag recalls have been done.
Looked some more. Buy that car, lol. Its super clean.
In reply to Slippery :
Thank you! I was remarkably impressed by the condition. It's amazing!
Glad to hear that about the cracks. However, I think I would still need to reinforce it as I plan on doing hpde and autocross. I'm worried about the cost of that repair/maintenance.
I asked about the airbag. What would be potentially problematic about the radio?
It is insanely clean! I just need to get someone to look at it and parental approval.
The subframe reinforcements are cheap and easy for a GRMer with a welder.
Six pack of beer and a pizza and I'd buzz them in for you.
In reply to wvumtnbkr :
Are they really that easy? A vorschlag thread said you had to grind off the rust proofing, and then weld them in. Seems a little tedious, but I've never done any of it?
lol, not old enough to buy beer but pizza and soda is well within my ability! I can also bake pretty well! Are you in illinois or near the midwest?
My 328 chassis I'm building my spec e46 on has 180k on it and doesn't have any cracking.
The chassis reinforcement is no small task. The whole suspension and gas tank need to come out. I think I read people have paid almost $2k for the job including the kit price.
In reply to jgrewe :
Have you tracked it yet or still building? I'm worried that hpde, autocross, or mods might stimulate a crack. But also it feels wrong to drive a car with such a known catastrophic failure point and not fix it. It's like deferred maintenance. Especially on such a clean car.
So the entire subframe and tank drops out, then rust coating is ground off, and the plates are welded in? Then repainted and everything goes back on? Sounds like the kind of repair that needs a lift and time.
Seller says it cost him 1100 for his M3
I wouldn't worry about it with a stock engine. I have a 330 and it has not been reinforced without any issues.
I have a build thread on my car going right now.
https://grassrootsmotorsports.com/forum/build-projects-and-project-cars/grm-is-totally-to-blame-for-this-spec-e46-content/259206/page1/
I made my own but $1100 sounds more reasonable. I didn't take any pics of the rear stuff but there is a shot of the front sway bar mount in the thread. Everything from the guibo back has to come out. The trailing arms too so you can stitch weld the front mounts in (another known issue).
In reply to jonnyd330 :
So on the BMW forums some people say it's inevitable, some people say in lower trims it's fine. I'm just really worried because it is such a catastrophic failure. Especially when doing hpde and mods (which i hope to do, although likely not too much power adding). How long have you had it? Any track time?
In reply to jgrewe :
Thanks!! Yeah I watched a video. Exhaust out, rear subframe and everything attached, trailing arms, and the tank along with the underbody cladding. Looks pretty involved but doesn't look terribly complex with most stuff being bolts and attached to the subframe.
Would I be crazy in saying that if I could get lift access, and someone to help me weld, I could remove everything and get it welded?
It isn't hard, just 97 simple steps. I used a wire wheel on a 4.5" grinder for the seam sealer then a sanding disc for the paint. The metal is pretty thin so it can be tough welding.
I wouldn't pull the car off the road to do it. I would gather some other parts to hang on there while its apart, like bushings or springs and bars etc.
In reply to jgrewe :
lol fair enough! I will admit to having a little bit of "how hard cani it be"-itis
Thanks for the advice? Realistically if it's not cracked rn, but I do start driving it hard (autocross and hpde), how long do I have before needing to address it?
I'm just learning the chassis myself. Mine is going right to the track so I did it first. Maybe a season of sticky tires and stiffer suspension and I would start thinking hard about it.
I've got 2 E46's (both 2004's), neither has had the reinforcement done. One has 180k miles, the other 230k, they're both fine. I'm sure heavy track use and sticky tires would benefit from reinforcement, but I would consider the cooling system, oil leaks, front suspension (control arms), guibo/center bearings to be more likely maintenance requirements on a daily driver.
Have you read any of this??
https://grassrootsmotorsports.com/project-cars/2004-bmw-m3/
It looks to me that there could be other things to think about....
Nothing bad with the radio, just noted it was not factory. I read the ad and it says the factory stuff is included.
The car is really clean.
For autocross I would not even worry about reinforcing anything.
I tracked my e46 M3 on slicks, it has zero cracks.
Honestly, I doubt anyone from the forum inspecting the car could tell you whether there are cracks on the chassis. To do a good inspection, the subframe has to come off. Its quite hard to see otherwise unless you are really familiar, have a lift and time to inspect.
Go buy it or I will beat you to it lol.
Based on pictures, you're going to be hard pressed to find a cleaner e46 without paying a high premium. Any car that age will have potential for issues, and as mentioned, to truly look for subframe issues, have to drop more than a couple of things.
I currently have four e46s in my yard, and one on my lift. You can cite that as my qualifications when you hand your parents my signature as an internet expert saying you should go buy that car.
In reply to Flynlow :
Thank you! I know about the cooling system and guibo weak points..what is the oil leak and front suspension situation?
In reply to MyMiatas :
I had not, no. I just skimmed it and it seems like with proper subframe bushings the cracking isn't much of an issue. The issue is that to install subframe bushings, you gotta do almost the same steps as reinforcing, except the welding.
Anyway it looks like the cracking isnt too terrible, especially for this car.
In reply to Slippery :
Thank you so much!
I'm working on buying it, but gotta get someone to look at it and parental agreement. Hence this post.
I'm also from Chicago. Would it be sacrilegious to drive such a nice car up here? Or if I get the undercariagw cleaned weekly and take car of it I'll be fine?
In reply to Spearfishin :
Thank you! It looks really nice!
I'm working on buying it lol. Gotta get parental approval, and someone to put eyes on it. Hence this thread
Three E46 in, never had a subframe crack. The internet well, internets things sometimes. Especially a 323 with hubcaps? Yeah, that likely hasn't been abused. Great platform. The radio looks aftermarket but it was originally a navigation car which shrunk the hvac controls and put them lower in the stack.
good luck - this looks like it will be a good adventure and learning opportunity.
