Anyone speak 22RE?

So, I built my 22RE for my Celica autocross car. I'm still pretty happy just to hear it run. I got most of the "new engine" bugs worked out. Just a small header leak to take care of. Other than that it runs just like a 22RE.

That's good, but that's bad. Getting one of these things over 5000 RPM is tough. I'm not looking for 9k, but I got to get it up to 6000, or close to it for my gearing to work out. Otherwise I'll have to look at 16" wheels which will start to just get silly on an '84 Celica.

I'm interested in any thoughts on the matter. I'm building for SCCA Street Prepared, so I can't do any head work other than port matching up to one inch in. I can do whatever I want on the intake and exhaust. I have a header on it already. Today at lunch time I snuck out to the U Pull and Pay and picked up a Supra throttle body. What else should I be looking at?

Cams legal?

92CelicaHalfTrac wrote: Cams legal?

Alas, no. It's a shame too. Basically, you can bolt anything you like to the head (not forced induction, or NOS or anything like that, but you know what I mean) but can't do anything internal except some overbore and balancing. I've done both.

The engine is a long stroke torque engine, with a stock camshaft to suit that profile. You've got the wrong engine for your goal of a high(ish) rpm screamer in stock form.

That said, I never had trouble getting any of my 22RE's to bounce off the rev limiter, at around 7,500. What is happening that yours doesn't want to go beyond 5,000?

Yeah, I'm probably not phrasing the question right.

I absolutely know I won't have a "high(even ish) RPM screamer". Actually, I'm counting on the torque to pull it off of the corners well enough to make up for what won't be there up high. I just need to do what I can to make it work as well as it can up high. It's more a gearing issue than an engine issue. I don't want to have to shift to third more than absolutely necessary.

I was doing some reading last night and this morning on adjustable cam gears. That is legal and I think it will help. The head was milled to the max allowable for the class (.010) and that probably moved things the wrong way.

The motor is brand new- I maybe have 100 beak in miles on it. I'm sure it will go to 6,000. I just know it doesn't like to do it so I want to do everything I can to help.

Fast Ed, as you know the 22re is more stump pulling than a screamer. If you can't change to the toyota 20r head to get some more flow, it sounds like you have done most of what you can do. Why not embrace the torque and try and use it as the main strength instead of a weakness. Thats what toysport did with there celica's back in the 80's. Max the torque and be able to run third with a really smooth line and hopefully not need to shift up and down, thus eliminating the shift loss time. Admittedly I $uck at auto-x so take all this with a huge grain of salt Here is a link to there site with some pretty good info. http://www.toysport.com/Technical%20Information/22r_tech_notes.htm Good luck Paul

I'm not sure that you can fit the 20R head to an RE - IIRC they only fit the 85-and-earlier blocks.

paulmpetrun wrote: Why not embrace the torque and try and use it as the main strength instead of a weakness. Thats what toysport did with there celica's back in the 80's.

Yeah, this is basically my strategy. I would like to avoid the shift if I can, but I'm not counting on making any time on the "fast bits".

OK, after reading the rules, I'm a little confused.

I don't understand how you're using a 22RE in a 72 under those rules. The engine is too new as I understand it.

If an alternate year is allowed, then what about a 22RTE? The factory turbo engine? It's no power house, but it is more powerful than the non-turbo.

Looking at the SP rules, they do allow some intake modifications that I think can help you. For as I recall, Toyota didn't develop the runner inlet pipes into a good bell shape inside the plenum. That should help you get better flow.

And are you sure the adjustable camshaft sprockets are allowed in SP? I don't see them mentioned, and the way the rules read, I wouldn't expect them to be allowed.

What about "cheater" cams? Same cam specs, just a little fatter lobe that happens to meet them?

Also, can you do larger valves?

I'd talk to the guys at Engnbldr and Toyheadauto.

foxtrapper wrote: OK, after reading the rules, I'm a little confused. I don't understand how you're using a 22RE in a 72 under those rules. The engine is too new as I understand it.

You couldn't use one in a '72. My Celica is an '84, so it came with a 22RE. I am using update/backdate to use the later 22RE from an '85.

I considered sending the intake to extrude hone. I wondered if it would help. I know people say the intake port is the tight spot, but I wonder if getting everything you can before that might still help.

Can't use a "cheater cam". Has to be a Toyota part for that very reason. And bigger valves are a no no.

Can't use the 22rte because it was never found in a Celica, stock.

It's an expensive motor, anyways.

15.10 AA. Camshafts and related parts must remain standard except that alternate cam drive pulleys or gears may be used to adjust cam timing if no variable cam and/or valve timing system exists as standard.

No, but I speak, Jive..... does that help?

Ah, didn't notice your Celica was an 84 so the 20R head should fit, but IIRC the intake and exhaust shapes are different so you'd need to use a 20R intake and exhaust. Guess the rules don't allow for that either.

BoxheadTim wrote: Ah, didn't notice your Celica was an 84 so the 20R head should fit, but IIRC the intake and exhaust shapes are different so you'd need to use a 20R intake and exhaust. Guess the rules don't allow for that either.

Yeah, I wish I could go there. I got the single row 22re from an '85 Celica since update/backdate let's me do that and since I can't run the 20R head anyway. But I'm running on the '84 stock EFI set up right now. I have an intake from a '93 truck, which is the later style with the throttle body straight instead of pointing down a little. I also got an '82 Supra throttle body. I'll do whatever modification/porting I decide to do to that intake and then swap it out.

92CelicaHalfTrac wrote: Can't use the 22rte because it was never found in a Celica, stock. It's an expensive motor, anyways.

Expensive, and really not all that. 22RE is like 105hp/130tq, 22RTE is only like 130hp/180tq.

It's part of the reason I got away from the R motor. I was really into them for a while, but when I look at the fuel economy vs power vs price to mod, I just can't justify it. I mean, my 5.0 gets better highway mileage than any of the R block equipped cars I've ever had. The best thing going seemed to be a 20/22R hybrid, and even that is outclassed in every way by a bone-stock KA24 (and I'm not a nissan fan).

I think I've seen one 22RET, they are pretty rare.

I don't know why you'd want to turn a 22re into a screamer, I think you have to learn to drive it and keep it where the power is. Driving my truck sometimes I'll have a clown in a newer celica try to beat me out. Well the celica has a tiny 1.8l motors which probably makes its power at a very high rpm. With a 2.4L and manual shift the truck makes its power at lower rpms. This means by the time the celica hits the sweet spot I'm already gone. To drive my truck fast the most important thing is shifting correctly. Keep the 22re where the power is.

In reply to benzbaron:

That's exactly what I'm thinking. A friend of mine had a lot of success building a Street Prepared AE86. The Celica suspension is almost identical. The fear was that the car would be too heavy, but my '84 ST (coupe) with no A/C only weighs about 50 or 75 lbs. more than his AE86 hatch. But just like you're saying, the Corolla has a 1.6. I just had the thought that on an autocross course, the torque would be better than the high end power.

Having said that, generally speaking, skipping that shift to 3rd seems to be the way to go. I don't need to be setting the world on fire up high, but I need to get what I can get. I have some work to do still just playing wtih ignition timing and some intake work. Just looking for any other ideas to sqeeze the last bit out of it.

What if you run a smaller diameter tire and just use 3rd gear? There's a DSP MX6 that does this....

You might find that you could use tires to make 3rd into a "second and a half" gear and just roll 3rd gear the whole time.

In reply to 92CelicaHalfTrac:

I'll run some numbers on that. Off the top of my head, the only down side is Hoosier's biggest 13 isn't as wide as the 275/35 15. I might be giving up grip to make it work. But you'd think it would give me more speed pulling off a corner. And I probably wouldn't have to cut the fenders - or at least not as much. It would look cooler, which is probably worth a couple of tenths. lol

I did run the numbers on a 16" wheel and that could work. I don't know why it just seems wrong to me. Oh, wait, yes I do.

fast_eddie_72 wrote: In reply to 92CelicaHalfTrac: I'll run some numbers on that. Off the top of my head, the only down side is Hoosier's biggest 13 isn't as wide as the 275/35 15. I might be giving up grip to make it work. But you'd think it would give me more speed pulling off a corner. And I probably wouldn't have to cut the fenders - or at least not as much. It would look cooler, which is probably worth a couple of tenths. lol I did run the numbers on a 16" wheel and that could work. I don't know why it just seems wrong to me. Oh, wait, yes I do.

Meh, a 16 on a 3rd gen doesn't look bad.... 15s ARE the sweet spot, though.

Actually, I'm starting to think the 16 might be the way to go. The Hoosier 275/45 16 will get me to 65 in second gear at 5500 RPM. That seems more doable than trying to push it to 6k.