Anyone speak TDI?

I can't believe I'm actually considering VAG things, but I have a goal of diesel swapping my 94 B4000.  The Ranger guys all swear by the TDI swap.  Evidently (still researching) there are pretty easy ways of swapping to a GM-type manual bellhousing which opens up a few million transmission options.  The other option is the Mitsu 4D55 which has plenty of Mopar trans options, but I can't see getting the power goals I want with a 4D55.

Most of the Ranger guys use one of the 1.9L TDIs and spend money on compound turbos and injectors/pump mods to get 250hp/450tq.  I'm wondering if that is the best option.  I could imagine something in the 3.0L range with a little modification, but I don't know how comfy I'll feel towing 4500 lbs with a 1.9L cranked up to the max.  That seems to be asking a lot.

My engine bay is small.  As much as I would love an inline 6 like an OM606, it would require significant surgery and radiator relocation.  The factory 4.0L is about 24" x 26" x 25", so I would imagine any I-4, V8, or V6 could fit.  (but I don't see the need for a heavy, diesel V8)

Am I barking up the right tree?
Needs:
-diesel,
-250hp/400tq with some modest tuning/parts would be nice, so something in the 2.5L-3.0L range give or take, unless a 1.9L TDI can get me there and be happy with truck-like abuse.
-I4 or V6 (maybe an I-5 if its short enough), 
-bonus for cheap buy-in and commonly available parts

Having owned 3 TDIs now over the past 11 years, I'm obviously a fan.

Having owned an gutless 4 cylinder automatic Jeep for Wrangler for 20 years, I've been way down the TDI swap research rabbit hole.

It's easier now than it was, there's a few tuners to choose from, and at least 1/2 a dozen adapter companies to choose from now, that cater specifically to the TDI crowd.

For a myriad of reasons, namely cost, the Gordian Knot of wiring involved with modern-ish TDIs, I came to the conclusion that if I were to diesel swap, the Mercedes OMXXX family of 5 and 6 cylinder diesels is the route I'd go. 

Purely opinion, but I've never seen a "clean" looking TDI swap, even with the $$$ aftermarket complete kits.  There's always hoses and wires strown around like the aftermath of a Silly String fight at a kid's birthday party.

Why not 4bt? Easily adaptable chevy and Mopar bellhousing pattern available. Just a 6cyl Cummins missing the middle 2 cylinders. Minimal wiring. Iirc, weighs   within 50# of a cast iron Lima.

Ranger50 said:

Why not 4bt? Easily adaptable chevy and Mopar bellhousing pattern available. Just a 6cyl Cummins missing the middle 2 cylinders. Minimal wiring. Iirc, weighs   within 50# of a cast iron Lima.

They're fairly heavy (750-ish lbs) and more importantly, they're tall.  So they can be a bit tough to fit in a lot of chassis.  

Yeah, I speak that jive...

The 1.9 TDI used is most swaps is the ALH motor, offered in the Mk IV Jetta/Golf from 1999 through 2003.  Pretty common and generally have the easiest electronics to deal with compared to later versions along with fairly minimal emissions controls.

250HP & 400tq is possible, but reliable it will not be. Especially if used under a sustained load like towing. Bear in mind the factory output was 90 HP.  In Europe VAG offered higher output versions, but even they maxed out at 150HP.  

To be honest, I wouldn't consider one of the V6 or V10 TDI engines as the electronics would likely be daunting.  Those aren't small engines either.

While I can see the value of a TDI  have you considered putting in a Ford 5.0L V8?

I happen to own a VW 2.0L TDI.

IF built right you could add a supercharger and get the 250 HP and 400 lb/ft or torque  by using a mild cam and around 10 lbs of boost. And  since it runs on gas you don't have to go through all the work of a conversion.

But if I were doing  and the choice just had to be a diesel then I would go with a V6 diesel,  it won't have to be dialed up to "11" to do what you want.

A stock 3.0 V6 VW diesel makes the numbers you are wanting, but I imagine its extremely cost prohibitive. 

In reply to rslifkin :

I thought they were 600.

As to height I've seen 6bt's in a 66 nova and a lx bodied charger...without much of a cowl hood.

The height thing depends a lot on what suspension, etc. has to go under it.  And how much ground clearance you want when you're done.  

I no longer love VWs but I love the stuffing out of this idea. The few chipped TDIs I've driven (Mk3 and Mk4) were a load of fun.

Plus without the rest of the VW it should actually be... reliable?

ebelements said:

 

Plus without the rest of the VW it should actually be... reliable?

LOL

Gastodiesel makes an adapter from TDI to your transmission. Uses your trans and flywheel. I've contemplated that swap. 

250hp from a TDI would be tough/expensive except maybe the newer CR stuff but that's a more difficult swap. 

For an easy 250hp the OM606 just needs a turbo and pump. It's not a small engine though. It's a pretty tall thing. I race a Toyota PU(actually 300D) that we OM606 swapped. Very nice power delivery and good fuel economy. I don't know about a 4x4 trans for that swap though. 

rslifkin said:

Ranger50 said:

Why not 4bt? Easily adaptable chevy and Mopar bellhousing pattern available. Just a 6cyl Cummins missing the middle 2 cylinders. Minimal wiring. Iirc, weighs   within 50# of a cast iron Lima.

They're fairly heavy (750-ish lbs) and more importantly, they're tall.  So they can be a bit tough to fit in a lot of chassis.  

And intensely loud, and rattly, and three times the cost of most other diesels because "cummins" is on the valve cover.  I had one in a P30 step van and just driving it around for work I wanted to take a valium.

4BTs have their place, but (in my opinion) that place is a medium duty tractor, not a daily driver.

jimbbski said:

While I can see the value of a TDI  have you considered putting in a Ford 5.0L V8?

I happen to own a VW 2.0L TDI.

IF built right you could add a supercharger and get the 250 HP and 400 lb/ft or torque  by using a mild cam and around 10 lbs of boost. And  since it runs on gas you don't have to go through all the work of a conversion.

But if I were doing  and the choice just had to be a diesel then I would go with a V6 diesel,  it won't have to be dialed up to "11" to do what you want.

 

I could convert to a 5.0L and get an easy 250hp/400 tq... along with a heavy nose and 15 mpg.  Or I could diesel swap and get 250hp/400tq... with a not as heavy nose and 30 mpg.

The key here is diesel.  I don't want gas.  If I could, I would swap almost everything I own to diesel.

JesseWolfe said:

A stock 3.0 V6 VW diesel makes the numbers you are wanting, but I imagine its extremely cost prohibitive. 

Yes, and intensely complex.  Nearly all of them are post 2008 which means DPF, urea, miles of wires and EGR plumbing.

buzzboy said:

 

For an easy 250hp the OM606 just needs a turbo and pump. It's not a small engine though. It's a pretty tall thing. I race a Toyota PU(actually 300D) that we OM606 swapped. Very nice power delivery and good fuel economy. I don't know about a 4x4 trans for that swap though. 

I would give a testicle to have an OM606.  I'll have to measure a LOT because it is 36" long and would be replacing an engine that is 25" long.

VAG also has some self-contained marine engines sold as Mercurys. While the actual engine may not help, the wiring might work for the 3.0 liter?

What about the Motori R 428 DOHC diesels that came in the Jeep Liberty and Grand Cherokee? I understand they may not have been common in the USA, but they're ubiquitous elsewhere.
 

An ALH can get to 200hp/350tq with a bolt on turbo vnt17/56 or similar ($1200), upgraded injector nozzles ($300), and a proper tune.  250hp/400tq is going to take a much bigger turbo (laggy and expensive) or a custom compound setup along with an uprated injection pump and nozzles.

Check out MecEvo, Darkside, and Xman Turbos 

There's a guy on facebook who does tuning at a much cheaper rate than Kerma or Malone. I'm running his Stage 1 tune on my daily Golf ALH (311k miles and counting) which was nice power bump from stock with no hardware mods.

Brett_Murphy said:

VAG also has some self-contained marine engines sold as Mercurys. While the actual engine may not help, the wiring might work for the 3.0 liter?

What about the Motori R 428 DOHC diesels that came in the Jeep Liberty and Grand Cherokee? I understand they may not have been common in the USA, but they're ubiquitous elsewhere.
 

They got the CRD-hacked version for a while here, but good luck finding one.  Seems these days you have an offer on the engine before the ambulance arrives at the crash.  Many of them are also 08-up with all the complex emissions goodies.

2002maniac said:

An ALH can get to 200hp/350tq with a bolt on turbo vnt17/56 or similar ($1200), upgraded injector nozzles ($300), and a proper tune.  250hp/400tq is going to take a much bigger turbo (laggy and expensive) or a custom compound setup along with an uprated injection pump and nozzles.

Check out MecEvo, Darkside, and Xman Turbos 

There's a guy on facebook who does tuning at a much cheaper rate than Kerma or Malone. I'm running his Stage 1 tune on my daily Golf ALH (311k miles and counting) which was nice power bump from stock with no hardware mods.

I could maybe work with those power levels.  I'm currently at 160hp/245tq which is fine for DD, but with my 3500 lb boat on the back I'm constantly in 3rd on the highways when the slightest hill comes up.  It just would be nice to be in the 250/400 range.  Maybe even 250/450.

OM617 is another one some guys do in Rangers, but hard to make power

OM606 is a tough fit, so I would assume an OM648 is equally tough.  But if I could do a 606 with a VNT and a 603 Mechanical pump, I'd be happier than a pig in E36 M3.

If you're not slowing down with the boat on the hills, you're not underpowered.  You're just hating that you have to rev the nuts off the thing to get all of the power out of it. 

OM617 is a pig. Heavy as hell. Bad flowing non-crossflow head. Cheap. I've read 180hp is about the limit without throwing metric barrels of money at it. 

OM602 is a nice middle ground. It's shorter than the long-ass 603/606 and can still make 250hp without "too" much money.

OM612 was available here and is roughly the same size as an OM602. Engine management becomes the issue there though.

I've not seen much about big hp ALH builds that are still streetable.

Fits in a Tacoma, should fit in a Ranger/B Series

Engine, trans, transfer case, ECM, harness, and accessories for <$4K.

Toyota 1KZ

The last time I spent $4k, I bought the truck in question.  ALH TDIs can be found for literally 1/10th that cost.  I don't think I'll be spending $4k on a JDM engine with questionable parts availability, but they are wonderful hunks of beauty.

Heck, I can get a complete reman OM606 for $2500.

In reply to Curtis :

The problem is you will spend close to that much on fitting an ALH and getting it to make those power levels.  With no guarantees on longevity.  While I've seen guys make those numbers, I've also seen a lot of blocks with big holes in them after the owners pushed them a bit too far. And those numbers get close to the "bit too far" side.