Are Big Blocks dead?

Does any manufacturer still install them in cars or light trucks?

Do they still have a place in GRM style vehicles?

Did the new wave of engines make them obsolete?

I was looking at CL for unique engines (read not 5.0 liter, ya know for fun), for my four door '84 Marquis, and found some big blocks. Some for less than the more ubiquitous Mustang's mill. The problem is manual transmission are getting to be the choke point and if you want one that is has been design after the cold war, it was probably from a truck or doesn't match the bellhousing. Plus they get expensive. T-56, I'm looking at you.

Would you drop a big block in your project/Challenge car if there wasn't one in there already?

Are they going to be turned into the Fords flat head V8's position? That is, you use them as period correct hopped up engines.

With the ease of a 5.0 liter and T-5 manual and the wealth of turbo 4 banger knowledge available on the internet, is there a place for the ol' big blocks in your modern project sports car? (I'm not thinking about drag racing at all.)

I'm pretty sure that Ford still uses the V10, Chevy still uses the 8.1.

Edit. Looks like Chevy dropped the BB.

I guess what's a big block if not two more cylinders worth of a 'normal' block? I'm not sure if that really qualifies, but we'll let the hive decide.

Is the GM 8.1 the old school big block or is it a bored out LSx style block?

Wiki says that the 8.1 ended in 2009.

It also appears Ford stopped putting the V10 in the Super Duty after 2010.

In reply to Toyman01:

No. The 8100 has been dead and buried for 6 years now and the 6.8L Triton V10 has been out in regular production vehicles since 2010 (F-650s and silly stuff like that kept them until 2012.) The closest thing to a big block is Ford's Hurricane 6.2L which was last in a Ford F-series in 2014

Mercedes seems to still install the twin-turbo V12 in some cars. Is that a "big block"? This nomenclature was always a bit silly since it was all relative and not based on actual displacement.

As far as the manufacturers go, big blocks are dead, but the aftermarket has many companies making and selling them, mostly for drag racing. Engines over 800 cid aren't uncommon.

That is true, the nomenclature is silly. How about the typical old school ones then? Would you pay the extra money (and weight) to play with them in a sports car setting?

So are they just for drag racing now?

RossD wrote: Is the GM 8.1 the old school big block or is it a bored out LSx style block?

The 8100 Vortec was a completely clean sheet design, sharing few external parts with the old MKIV big blocks or the LSx family. Interestingly, these were available with the Allison transmission behind them in the 2500s and 3500s. Drove one once and it didn't feel a whole lot different than a 6.0L, just the fuel gauge went down a helluva lot quicker.

In reply to NickD:

Looks like the 6.8 V10 is still the standard engine for the F450 and F550 commercial chassis.

It also looks like the F350 commercial chassis is still available standard with the 6.2 gas.

I don't think the medium duty trucks count against their CAFE standards so they can get buy with using the gas hogs in them.

I have never had the slightest, remotest interest in a big block unless the car came factory with it.

Fact is, since the 90's most "small blocks" could adequately make power to not deal with the size/weight issues of a "big block" in the same car.

Displacement isn't the absolute key for the average person to be making ridiculous power it once was. Direct injection, forced induction and the like have given us pretty ridiculous power levels out of smaller engines.

And before somebody types a rebuttal, yes, putting the modern things on a big block would result in even more power. The point is you don't NEED a 454 to make 400 horsepower any longer. You can do it with 4 cylinders with as much reliability as you'd have gotten out of a 60s era hotrod (maybe).

Big blocks are mostly dead because they're gas hogs, especially with the heightened fuel economy standards (not quite high enough, political statements ...) for cars and light trucks. Diesels probably took their place, plus I think that better engineering increased the torque of the small block V8 truck engines. I also think that people may be buying a little less of the mid-sized trucks. The Viper V10 is one of the few "common" big block engines available, and I'm sure they're really expensive due to very low production numbers.

I would only use a V8 big block if it came with the car; I may eventually want to build a car with a V12 Jag engine (maybe a V12 BMW engine) to know what the V12 hype is all about. But, poor gas mileage and poor weight will not make that car great for autocross or other motorsports competition that I would want to use it for.

Toyman01 wrote: In reply to NickD: Looks like the 6.8 V10 is still the standard engine for the F450 and F550 commercial chassis. It also looks like the F350 commercial chassis is still available standard with the 6.2 gas.

I'm not entirely sure if I would consider the 6.8L a big block. It's just a 4.6/5.4L with two extra cylinders grafted on. The last honest to god Ford big block was pr9obably the mighty 460, which expired in 1997. Had an F-350 with a 460 in it, what a monster, that truck would move anything as long as you kept it fed.

Chevy will gladly sell you one of these.

http://www.chevrolet.com/performance/crate-engines/big-block-zz-572-720-r.html

572 CI, 720 hp @ 6250 rpms.

You don't want to know the price.

I remember reading internal order sheet memos when the 8100 came out that stated that you could order a Silverado with the 8100 and a MANUAL transmission, in a short bed, regular cab, 2WD configuration. Not that anyone ever did order one like that, but it made me giddy at the time.

Today, I don't know if I'd even want an 8100 in anything. I'd much rather have a LSX or Coyote V8. Similar (if not more) power, more efficient, and lighter.

Who the heck is still buying the "big blocks" in their new medium duty trucks anyway vs. buying a diesel? Maybe if I really wanted a new tow vehicle or something like that but didn't really plan on putting that many miles on it, I might go cheaper and get the gas model, but I don't see many other people in the market for those trucks (those that use them every day) wanting to go with the big gas engine.

Would any of you but an old school big block in a car that you'd still like to have turning abilities?

In reply to NickD:

Meet the Green Giant. 94, 460.

Needless to say, I'm loving the sub $2/gal gas prices.

RossD wrote: Would any of you but an old school big block in a car that you'd still like to have turning abilities?

Sure. Seen plenty of people do it. There's a '71 Chevelle with a 454 that runs CAM in a nearby chapter and he turns great times despite keeping the tires in a constant state of wheelspin. Look at pro-touring guys and there are plenty running big blocks.

Brent Jarvis' tasty road-racing Chevelle, for example, with a 454 and a 5-speed and nitrous

Or this sheer mental '73 Challenger with a 605ci Mopar Wedge

Toyman01 wrote: I'm pretty sure that Ford still uses the V10, Chevy still uses the 8.1. Edit. Looks like Chevy dropped the BB.

The V10 isn't a big block.

Yes the big-block is dead as far as light duty trucks is concerned.

Performance wise, they are far from dead. We won't build any Chevy smaller than 496 because it costs the same amount of money as a 454, and smaller displacements aren't worth the bother because you can do a small-block for the same bother and a lot easier engine bay.

The last one I put in a car was a 540... have a 596 (IIRC) and a 632 ready to drop in when the chassis come back from body shop. For you three pedal fans, both will have Tremecs Wish I had my camera the day the pallet full of brand-new 6-speeds got trucked in.

Nothing to add about current models, but I used to own a '67 Cougar with a big block, and I will second the fuel mileage. Not that anything got that much at the time, but for the most part, it couldn't get into the double digits. I had a friend with an '80's 460 Ford truck, and it hardly ever broke 10 to 12mpg either. Today it's too easy to get the same power out of better power plants.

RossD wrote: Is the GM 8.1 the old school big block or is it a bored out LSx style block?

It's... weird. I've never seen one in a light duty truck but I did work on one in a Topkick. (Ate a camshaft) It looks like someone took a Mark V block and threw an LS1 at it. It has the same/similar coil-near-plug arrangement, the same dry intake manifold/semi-cathedral IEIEIEIE arrangement, the same O-ring seal style timing cover, but when you get the intake manifold off you see a late SBC style dogbone retainer and an LT1 style distributor drive for the rear main mounted, camshaft driven oil pump.

pres589 wrote: Mercedes seems to still install the twin-turbo V12 in some cars. Is that a "big block"? This nomenclature was always a bit silly since it was all relative and not based on actual displacement.

Big block related mainly to bore spacing and deck height. There really isn't an official this is small, this is big, but BBCs have a different bore center than SBCs, and Fords have one bore center for everything Cleveland/Windsor/Y-block(/flathead?), and wider bore centers for the FE/MEL/385 engines. (And then there are the two different deck heights for the Windsors, and two different deck heights for the Clevelands, and the tall deck Cleveland is the same deck height as a 385 and the same bellhousing, because Ford is funny)

That be the difference. Given the trend to longer strokes and smaller bores for better combustion efficiency, the big-block will probably be forever dead.

Toyman01 wrote: Chevy will gladly sell you one of these. http://www.chevrolet.com/performance/crate-engines/big-block-zz-572-720-r.html 572 CI, 720 hp @ 6250 rpms. You don't want to know the price.

Or the fact that you usually gotta take 'em apart and fix what Chevy didn't do right on assembly...

In reply to Knurled:

Trust me, I know the differences between big and small block, and you listed them well. My point was that the traditional "large by huge" looking big-block under the hood of a domestic has been taken over by physically imposing setups like that MB V12.